Good lord.

Project much?

well
not All
of Us get to
work for makers of
Weapons of Mass Destruction

if we did
perhaps Wars
on Captive Populations
might be slightly more Palatable

is it Genocide?

other than
grammar
nazis

Who
GIVES
a fuck?

mass murder
is mass murder.

bibi's
gotta keep
his War on Gazans
going till El trumpfster
can Steal the next (last?)* one

*dictator
on Day One:
day one and done?

Unlikely.

He needs a viable primary challenger which he didn’t get. Who will run against him in two years?

IOW you are a loud, obnoxious jerk shoving your opinions down everyone's throats as stated, and you're whining about being called out for it. Temper tantrum on, you toddler in an adult body, you.

"There’s an argument that these disruptive protest tactics are counterproductive . . . ."

Forest, disruptive protest tactics ARE counterproductive. Just look what happened at this town hall: you didn't change anyone's mind, and did not make any progress whatsoever toward a cease fire in Gaza. If anything, these tactics likely undermine support for Palestine, because the protestors come off looking like a bunch of crazy weirdo extremists.

P.S.: Complaining about it in the Stranger isn't helping.

‘Whether or not one agrees that “genocide” is the correct word to describe the deliberate starving of children, the annihilation of entire families, and the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Gaza,’

All of which would end immediately if Hamas surrendered. If you were demanding Hamas surrender, you seem not to have included it in your demands at Rep. Smith’s meeting, or in your account here. Perhaps I missed it?

(Also, nobody doubts Hamas committed genocide in Israel on 10/7, so if you’d like to use the word without getting into a fight over it, you could start there.)

I was in Jayapal’s district and moved to Smith’s. Yes, they are different Democrats, but they are our Democrats. Smith didn’t start the military-industrial complex (that Ike warned us about) and he won’t end it. But I would far rather have Dems leading the House, even moderate Dems, than the GOP.
In the meantime, MTG has once again grabbed media attention, and threatened to disrupt the House. At least the Dems are somewhat functional.

@8 sure and all the suffering in Ukraine will stop if Ukraine just surrenders. It's so easy, the governments of these invaded and occupied territories just need to quit whining about "human rights violations" and surrender to the aggressors already. Great point.

@10: “…all the suffering in Ukraine will stop if Ukraine just surrenders.”

Why do you believe this?

(So is the government of Ukraine holding Russian hostages? Hostages acquired via Ukrainian armed incursion into Russia? Hostages Ukraine may be sexually abusing? If not, then what’s the point of this analogy?)

@10 the real question is why do you believe all the Palestinian suffering will stop if Hamas surrenders

From Smith press release:

“Extremist groups on both the left and right side of the political spectrum use intimidation to silence opposing viewpoints and stifle debate. We saw this at the Capitol on January 6th and these intimidation tactics have been used at city council meetings across the country and at our town hall over the weekend.”

Seems an accurate description based on Forest’s own description of the event / their personal actions of being disruptive / obnoxious.

Just another white dude putting themselves up as a white savior (pretty sure that’s something we could do without).

Self-righteous anger and claiming the moral high ground is pretty heady stuff. It's made the right what it is today, but the left is not immune from it either.

Sounds like Smith was spot on in his assessment. When you emerge from your idealogical pure bubble and join the rest of us in the real world you'll find out the majority of us recognize Hamas is a terrorist, existential threat that needs to be eliminated. There is no scenario here where Hamas retains control of Gaza and there is any sort of peace. I'm glad Smith called you out and I wish more Democrats had the guts to stand up to asshats like you and your friends.

Can we expect such protests in front of the Russian and Chinese consulates/embassies since they just killed the ceasefire resolution at the UN? I’m thinking probably not.

@12: Where did I state a belief that “all Palestinian suffering will end if Hamas surrenders”? That appears to be something you made up @10 — along with an analogy so hideously insulting to Ukraine, you utterly abandoned it the moment I questioned you about it. Great moral courage, that.

Why are we not surprised by #15's staunch support of war crimes, ethnic clnsing and what the ICJ has termed genocide?

Maybe because it's a mark of cowardice of the sort so often seen in posts on other threads.

so what’s the Score?

Hamas: 1300
plus Atrocities

Vs

Israel: 20,000
Buried under Rubble*
33,000: 1/3 women 1/3
Children and 1/3 Hamas
more dead-for-certain totals:

55,000. DEAD. Infrastructure? Don’t make
me laff. Hospitals? Nah. FOOD? Sorry!

Sanitation?
HOMES?

OUR
Tax Dollars
Paying so Dearly
for BiBi’s keep-outta
Prison card cum genocide.

but maybe you’re Correct
wormmy and it’s
only Genocide
Lire. so Far

but what difference’d
it make to Israel, instructed
by the ICJ to back off and take
Care of its legal requirments in
Time of War which they’re Ignoring

Let’s take that
15.5 Billion and
Invest in decent Day
Care so Parents could
Afford to fucking Work

INSTEAD of
Killing Foreigners
and their Children*

that to me
seems like a
WIN – WIN - WIN

*Israel
Believes
In Socialism!
Not for Gazans
for Israelis! silly!
US? we ‘cannot afford’ it.
thee Richest Country in the
History of the Known Universe:

That
takes
TRUE
Talent.

@18
Bingo.

Smith is in the minority in the House. The Speaker, from the majority Republicans, wants to invite Bibi to tell them about "finishing the job".

@18 you are a lost soul and I truly feel sorry for you. I hope someday you’ll be able to recognize what it is you’re advocating for.

@18: When did the ICJ rule that Israel had committed genocide? Quote and url, please.

And, since you’re such an expert on genocide, did Hamas commit genocide in Israel on 10/7? (Hint: the violent, right-wing reactionary group called Hamas raped and killed Jews, for being Jews, on land Hamas has vowed to cleanse of Jews.)

@19: “so what’s the Score?”

Yes, how many women in Gaza has the IDF gang-raped? I’m willing to bet even you can (on a good day, and with enormous amounts of intensive personal assistance) count that high!

And, unlike the IDF in Gaza, while we don’t have an exact number on how many women Hamas gang-raped in Israel for the ‘crime’ of being Jews in a land Hamas has vowed to cleanse of Jews, we have some idea it’s rather larger than the number of Gazan women who’ve been gang-raped by the IDF:

‘… the [U.N.’s investigatory] team also found “clear and convincing information” that some of the women and children taken back to Gaza that day by Hamas as hostages were subjected to “rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.” There were “reasonable grounds to believe,” it said, “that this violence may be ongoing.”‘

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/04/hamas-rape-un-report-hostages/)

And, since you’re such an expert on genocide, did Hamas commit genocide in Israel on 10/7? (Hint: the violent, right-wing reactionary group called Hamas raped and killed Jews, for being Jews, on land Hamas has vowed to cleanse of Jews.)

A simple yes or no will suffice.

(You can say yes or no, can’t you?)

@23: so what’s the Score?

Hamas: 1300
plus Atrocities

Vs

Israel: 20,000
Buried under Rubble*
33,000: 1/3 women 1/3
Children and 1/3 Hamas
more dead-for-certain totals:

55,000. DEAD. Infrastructure? Don’t make
me laff. Hospitals? Nah. FOOD? Sorry!

Sanitation?
HOMES?

OUR
Tax Dollars
Paying so Dearly
for BiBi’s keep-outta
Prison card cum genocide.

but maybe you’re Correct
wormmy and it’s
only Genocide
Lite. so Far

Gazans'll
be Relieved
when you air-
drop all those
Funk & Wagnalls

now howz about
a little FOOD for
the Palestinian
Famine?

tell us how
Hamas's gonna
steal it all so, no,
Gazans don't get
any "more" food.

so let 'em Starve?
what's another
War Crime?

OUR Tax dollars:
Funding a fucking
Genocidal Maniac.

"Your
hill to die on
isn't our hill to die on."

as we let the
Massacre
continue.

@26: So, what’s the word? Yes or no? Did Hamas commit genocide on 10/7, when they raped and murdered Jews for the ‘crime’ of being Jews, on land Hamas has vowed to cleanse of Jews?

Or do you just not know what the word “genocide” means?

wrong
dewey
WE're

Arming it
Funding it
Allowing it

Hamas is a Terrorist Organization
as uncommitted to the loss of
Palestinian Lives as Isreal

that Justifies
an Ongoing
Genocide to
you? it does
to some here

not to Me.

oh Wormtongue
blow it out
your ass.

@31 As usual, you can't answer the question, can you, Kristo? It's tough to actually have to defend your ignorance.

By the way, here's a bit of a hint for you:

Hamas killed 1,200 Jews on 10/7 because that's all they could kill.
If Hamas could have killed 12,000 Jews on 10/7, they would have.
If Hamas could have killed 120,000 Jews on 10/7, they would have.
And if Hamas could have killed every Jew on the planet on 10/7, they would have.
The only reason Hamas didn't kill more Jews on 10/7 is because they couldn't.

There's a reason no one takes you or xina seriously.

I see that Thirteen12 has slinked away from the comments after their ridiculous analogy in comment #10 and the deflection in #12 got shot down. See ya!

@30: Did Hamas commit genocide in Israel on 10/7, or not? It's a simple yes or no question.

It's also pretty funny that morality is a numbers game to you -- until the numbers are for rape, where there can be absolutely no doubt the crime is intentional, and all the evidence says the IDF's number is zero. Then, suddenly, your certainty about genocide simply evaporates, and you're stricken completely mute on the topic -- you literally cannot say a single word. Good luck getting anyone to buy your preening posture of self-described moral superiority.

Speaking of numbers, they show your cheap moral equivalence is wrong:

"Hamas is a Terrorist Organization
as uncommitted to the loss of
Palestinian Lives as Isreal"

As we've already noted, if the IDF wanted to kill civilians in Gaza, the death toll you're always obsessively citing (and inflating whenever you feel like it) would be a lot higher. Hamas killed more civilians in Israel on 10/7 than have died in any several random days combined in Gaza, and the IDF has both more, and more destructive, weaponry. Hamas isn't merely "uncommitted" (ha!) to saving lives in Gaza, they're eagerly getting as many civilians there killed as possible. Why? Because Hamas knows persons like yourself will blame the IDF for all of the death and destruction in Gaza, no matter how much evidence you get showing Hamas literally prepared Gaza to become a killing ground. You're actively encouraging the very problem you're complaining about, and thus you are complicit in the suffering of Gazans.

You either can't see -- or can't admit you do see -- Hamas is using you to further their genocidal ends. You'd rather give a terrorist organization a free pass on genocide (!) than make an actual moral judgment. Again, good luck with your pose of moral concern.

@33 this is where
my rapid skim
ended up:

"... no matter
how much evidence
you get showing Hamas
literally prepared Gaza to become a killing ground."

like when nutnyahoo
focused on Annexing the
West Bank whilst Informed
of the coming Hamas Attack

which Came

and then Never
Responded for what
was it thirteen HOURS?

this War on
Gazans in their
Concentration Camp

bibi coulddda Stopped
it in its Tracks no small
Wonder you wanna di-
vert attention elsewhere

as for the rest?
pass

@32
that works
for you too

Calling on Hamas to "surrender" is lazy and absurd. The kind of formal surrender that ended, say, WW2 is an obsolete concept in the modern era of asymmetric warfare, where a mere handful of determined fighters can wreak havoc on a much larger force using off-the-shelf tech, independently of any centralized command structure. Netanyahu would instantly dismiss a Hamas surrender offer as a ruse and continue blasting away.

Replacing Netanyahu's far-right government with a center-right coalition wouldn't end the war. But it would crack the door open for some kind of Palestinian (or pan-Arab) civil administration in Gaza, an idea Netanyahu vaguely endorses at Biden's insistence but politically can't ever allow, as it would foreclose the expulsion and resettlement dreams of his coalition partners. His inability to do anything that might fracture his government is why the IDF will be tasked with direct governance of Gaza as long as he remains in office, an unsustainable situation for Israel both militarily and economically.

@36: No one is calling on Hamas to surrender, for the simple reason Hamas won't do it. We need to force Hamas out of business. Hamas is not a cellular, decentralized, self-supporting guerrilla organization, but a top-down terrorist outfit, dependent on sources of men, money, and weapons from outside Gaza. They have leaders, soldiers, financiers, arms suppliers, and the like, and Hamas receives support from the governments of Qatar and Iran. We should be exerting pressure for a UN resolution officially declaring Hamas a terrorist organization, and the full weight of international police organizations should be directed toward shutting it down, extraditing Hamas' leaders to Israel or The Hague for trials, and stopping the flows of money and arms to it. Arm-twisting the leaders of Iran and Qatar with sanctions on their import of luxury items, and personal losses of their (and their families', friends', and cronies') international travel privileges, would make for a great start.

Israel is a democracy, and the citizens now recognize Hamas as an existential threat to themselves and their country. No matter who the citizens of Israel elect to lead them, the total destruction of Hamas will top the Israeli government's list of priorities. Perhaps the UN can take over Gaza as a protectorate, initially in partnership with the IDF, and eliminate Hamas from Gaza. Otherwise, Israel will govern Gaza, just as you said.

@33 absolutely nobody here is defending Hamas in any form or fashion so you're just strawmanning, but more importantly if we were to say "yes Hamas did genocide on 10/7" then what? Is "they started it" really your argument in defense of Israel? That's the best you can come up with?

"Why
don't you
just admit it
Kristo, you hate Jews."

--@bertha
as insightful
as per Usual

I had the usual Prejudices
'growing up' Provincially
till I worked with some
Jews & found my wee
stereotypes pointless

these people were driven
smart sharp no- or very
little -nonsense kinda
peeps with Great
senses of Humor.

hate 'em?

Why?!

I HATE what
bibi's doing
in Israel's
Name*

he's NOT
helping Jews
Worldfucking Wide

you need to
Take it up
with him.

*and what Joe's
doing in
OURS.

@40
oh &
Warm.

warmer than
many here.

does one 'genocide'
Justify an ON-going
Genocide replete
with Diseases
Famine
Terror
DEATH?

some say it Would
I say on what
fucking
Planet?

nyt:

Deadly
Moscow Attack
Shatters Putin’s Se-
curity Promise to Russians

The tragedy outside Moscow
is a blow to a leader riding
an aura of confidence
only days after a
stage-managed
election
victory.

Mr. Putin
hinted that
Ukraine was
behind the tragedy
and said the assailants
had acted “just like the Nazis,”
who “once carried out massacres in the occupied territories”

more:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/23/world/europe/putin-russia-moscow-attack.html

see?
it ain’t
just bibi.

speaking of nazis

@bertha:
your dunning/
kroger's acting up Again

'Kristo;
all you seem
to do sling labels
like a witch hunter.

Goebles
would have been
proud of your techniques.'

and Baffled
by your metaphors
but thanks! I shall En-
deavor to Persevere! Gracias!

speaking of Billy Joel
we didn't start the Fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

it's a Gas,
Baby!

172,000,002
Views! so
far

Thanks Forest Hoag for writing about this.

FWIW, I was also at the town hall meeting and I found Mr Smith's behavior high-handed. And his subsequent labeling of the protestors as "extremists" was obscene. Yes, they were loud and disorderly, but he did hold the townhall to hear citizen opinions. It seemed pretty craven to run away from it.
An elected politician is a servant of the people who elected him, but he seems to have forgotten that. It his job to hear them whether he likes what he hears or not. And it is certainly not decent to tell a grieving person who has lost relatives in the Gaza rubble that he, Adam Smith, has decided that it wasn't genocide so that was that. He should have tried to understand their grief and pain, and suggest how he might contribute positively to furthering peace in the region.
I felt offended enough to write about it too https://medium.com/@pravse/mr-smith-goes-to-washington-not-096a2ccb3ec8
Many folks on this thread have strong opinions -- I can respect all of that. This is a democracy and I don't feel any need to attack someone else for their opinion. But I cannot respect the way in which Adam Smith has behaved. His job is to represent every constituent in his district, including those like me who quietly dislike his policies or those like Forest who protest it more loudly.

@4 "He needs a viable primary challenger which he didn’t get. Who will run against him in two years?" ... I could be mistaken but the WA state deadline for filing is in May. So there is still time for someone to run against him this year. Adam Smith has been there almost 30 years and seems badly out of touch.

Smith is a member of the military-industrial complex (Eisenhower had originally had the word "congressional" included in the term but struck it out of concern for the sensibilities of some congressional friends). "Democrats" like him - the majority of the politicians in the party - have had tunnel-vision if not a wholly-turned blind eye regarding Israel's hegemonic ethnic cleansing in Palestine the last 75 years. They support the rogue and unruly nation out of manipulated goyim Holocaust guilt and rationalized realpolitik "strategic interests" as well as craven domestic political calculations. They are as much pariahs as right-wing Israeli extremist-Zionism.

@8; @11; @17; @23; @29; @32; @33; @38:

‘There
Is No Just-
ification for Terrorism,’
Says Man Justifying Genocide

Today it was bravely declared that there is no justification for terrorism—no history or circumstances past, present, or future—by a man justifying the far more practical and kind act of complete genocide.

“I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: There is no justification for terrorism. Genocide, on the other hand—now that’s more my speed, jack,” said the white man proudly standing on American soil with a smile.

“If you think about it, terrorism is just half-assed genocide—nothing to respect about it. If you’re gonna do it, go all the way.

That’s why I fully support our friends in Israel carrying out the far more compassionate act of carpet-bombing the most densely populated land on Earth to finally finish off what’s left of those last 2.2 million Palestinian civilians in Gaza—half of which are children.

Oops, sorry! I meant animals.”

Asked if there was any justification for non-violent protest, the man confirmed that actually there isn’t any justification for that either.

“Yeah, if people peacefully show up at the border of an open-air prison asking for basic human rights, there is no justification for that either—can you say annoying AF?” said the man, looking at his wristwatch waiting for Israel to take the billions of dollars sent to them to get this shit over with already.

Even though the lesson doesn’t seem to have worked in anyone’s favor, which is why we must all come together to support the more fair and effective Final Solution of indiscriminately exterminating every last Gazan.”

so much more:
https://theneedling.com/2023/09/02/there-is-no-justification-for-terrorism-says-man-justifying-genocide/

Hell
it ain't
even Real
"Genocide"

says man who
swears by Everything
the ICJ declares except
the part where Israel must
STOP Committing Genocide.

getting back
to the Point

This is’s
Good a time
as any to put it to
The Congressman:
Ride the anti-Genocide
train to DC* & let the Lobbyists
spoil you Wrotten or hell hang out
with Bernie & AOC – even if you lose
it might help shake up the domesticated

then there’s all that
Campaign Cash
Perhaps anoth-
er Run might
be Fun.

*Assuming there’s
Still Time. So
What are you
Waiting for?

Opportunity’s
Knocking.

speaking of:

Ocasio-Cortez,
in House Speech,
Accuses Israel of ‘Genocide’

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had called for a permanent cease-fire in the war between Israel and Hamas, but had resisted labeling the conflict a genocide.

“Honoring our alliances does not mean facilitating mass killing,” Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said on Friday. “We cannot hide from our responsibility any longer. Blocking assistance from one’s closest allies to starve a million people is not unintentional.”

... progressives aligned with Ms. Ocasio-Cortez have taken Mr. Biden’s firmer stance as evidence that their tactics are working.

She began her remarks by invoking Mr. Biden’s own words from a 2011 speech when he was vice president, calling him “a decent man.” Mr. Biden said then that stopping genocides was “an achievable goal” while lamenting that too often real action came “too late, after the best and least costly opportunities to prevent them have been missed.”

Echoing those words, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said the United States risked repeating past mistakes. She said relatively little about Israel’s bombing campaign or ground invasions, but referred specifically to a Biden administration plan to put a temporary floating pier off Gaza’s coastline to ease the transit of goods, warning it would be “too late” to stave off the worst.

“The time is now to force compliance with U.S. law and the standards of humanity,” she said, calling for the administration to “suspend the transfer of U.S. weapons to the Israeli government in order to stop and prevent further atrocity.”

“This is not just about Israel or Gaza,” '
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez added.
“This is about us.”

--by Nicholas Fandos

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/nyregion/aoc-genocide.html

END the
Complicity
just say NO.

@39: Where did I accuse anyone here of “defending Hamas”? Some commenters here have agreed with the headline poster’s use of “genocide” to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, so I asked a couple of them if Hamas had committed genocide in Israel on 10/7. So far, not a single one has answered. From this, I conclude they are not competent to use the word, “genocide,” and therefore, by refusing to tolerate their incompetence, Rep. Smith set a good example.

‘…if we were to say "yes Hamas did genocide on 10/7" then what?’

Then, unlike the Stranger generally, this headline poster, and some commenters here, we would have used the word, “genocide,” correctly. (For more information on the importance of using words correctly in politics, please see George Orwell.)

Once we’d assigned the correct words to events, we could talk about what the world needs to do to uphold the UN Convention against Genocide — like, say, by utterly destroying Hamas, and bringing any surviving terrorists from Hamas to trial in Israel or The Hague. Have you a problem with any of that? Because that still-steaming turd of an analogy against Ukraine you dumped on this thread @10 implies you do. Please feel feee to elaborate.

@56 the analogy was that, like Russia in Ukraine, the IDF is an invading and occupying force in Gaza. Something you continue to refuse to even discuss in favor of reiterating the same tired points about Hamas that nobody is arguing. Why are you so defensive about this? It's a bad look.

@57: Your analogy seems to lack the account of how Ukraine launched an armed incursion into Russia, killed hundreds of Russians in their homes, and abducted hundreds more back into Ukraine, where the United Nations now has reason to believe Ukraine now sexually abuses those Russian hostages.

Why do you equate a demand for terrorists to surrender with a demand Ukraine just lick the Russian imperialist boot?

It’s a bad look.

@58 simple question: do you think Israel is justified in killing, maiming, starving and displacing all of Gaza because "Hamas started it?"

@59: A simple question: Why do you equate a demand for terrorists to surrender with a demand Ukraine just lick the Russian imperialist boot?

@34, @51: Person in United States tells Israeli women to just STFU about rape, already — and, yet, somehow still feels completely entitled to lecture everyone else on morality!

So, can we say you’re now into full-on rape denial, or do you count yourself as still merely a rape-apologist? Caitlin Johnstone wants to know. (Really? No.)

@60 quit changing the subject and just admit you think everyone in Gaza deserves to die because you're mad at Hamas

@62: Ha, ha, ha. You compared wanting criminals to surrender with telling victims of imperialism to just lick the boot. Why don’t you want violent criminals brought to trial?

It’s your miserable analogy; you defend it.

@34: Are you merely a rape-apologist, or have you gone full into rape-denial?

@63 "Buh buh buh Russian imperialism" ok whatever. I really didn't expect "do you believe Palestinian children deserve to starve to death?" to be this difficult to answer

@64: You’re the one here, who @10, dragged Russian imperialism into this topic. No one else here has equated bringing Hamas’ rapists and murderers to justice with demanding Ukrainians just lick the boot, already. That was your fabrication, and your fabrication alone. You now get to own it.

“…do you believe Palestinian children deserve to starve to death?"

No. Which is why Hamas should surrender, instead of hiding behind Palestinian children. See? We agree. (I still don’t know how Hamas’ overdue surrender relates to demanding Ukrainians end their heroic resistance to Russian imperialist aggression, but that false equivalence is your problem, not mine.)

@65 "Which is why Hamas should surrender"

So the Israelis have no autonomy, they're just reacting without thought or accountability to external stimuli, like rats in a maze? That's what you're saying?

@66: Has Hamas any autonomy? Why can’t they just surrender? They committed the crimes on 10/7, right?