Galoshes would probably be more effective than goulashes in the rain.

For the discussion about the UNRWA employees, was Kenworth Trucks responsible for Gary Ridgway's killing spree? If not, why would the UNRWA be responsible for what their employees did outside work?

"Without evidence, the document stated, "Seven stormed into Israeli territory, including two who participated in kidnappings.""

I see TS is already going to cast doubt on the veracity of the claims despite the fact the UN itself (who doesn't really have a great track record of taking action) felt the evidence was compelling enough to fire the accused members. Sad.

If you're downloading someone on a Gondola you're supposed to radio the bottom station and let them know which car has a passenger. JFC, Heavenly.

If your source for the UNRWA item was the AP story you linked to, it did not say the info on the 12 UNRWA employees' being part of the Oct 7 massacre was without evidence. It said that Israel's claim that 190 UNRWA employees were Hamas or Islamic Jihad was without evidence. Please fix, unless you have another source.

@3: Or the UN regarded the US request as a threat to end funding to UNRWA if the employees we accused weren’t let go, and decided our money was more important than investigating and adjudicating this personnel matter properly.

@2: If Kenworth Trucks had been receiving government funds to ensure the health and well-being of sex workers on the SeaTac strip, then yes, they probably should have fired Ridgway for killing some of those workers. (At the very least, they should have investigated exactly why his co-workers kept calling him, “Green River Gary.”)

Have the Israelis arrested any of the UNRWA employees they accuse of participating in the Oct. 7 attacks? Or were they among the 100+ UNRWA employees killed in the latest war on Gaza?

@1 And the consequences for not following the UN ethics guideline is termination of employment. Which has already happened. Weren't you the one who was saying that the UN doesn't have a police force and can't enforce any actions by (for example) the ICJ? So what else was UNRWA supposed to have done?

@3 What part of that is inaccurate? Did the document provide evidence that the UNRWA employees were involved in 10/7? Sure, they made allegations, and very serious ones at that. And the UNRWA took immediate action. And what, pray tell, is the UNRWA supposed to do other than fire the employees? Shoot them at dawn? Oh, and before you get all up in arms about Slog's editorial bias, the linked AP story also says that the Israeli document makes allegations without providing evidence.

Another interesting question: For how long did Israel know that these UNRWA employees were associated with Hamas? Did they know before 10/7? That seems likely since they reportedly had wiretaps on their phones on 10/7 so that they could hear the orders being given. If they knew that these employees were Hamas or Islamic Jihad operatives in their spare time, wouldn't the responsible thing to have done be to alert the UNRWA so that these people could have been removed from their positions earlier?

@8: “…the linked AP story also says that the Israeli document makes allegations without providing evidence.”

No, it doesn’t. The AP story says the findings in the Israeli document “…could not be independently confirmed.”

“The Israeli document, which has been shared with U.S. officials and was obtained by The Associated Press, lists 12 people, their alleged roles in the attack, job descriptions and photos. The findings detailed in the document could not be independently confirmed.”

(https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-29-2024-4c49c2fb89c3bfd4963f2260b34943c1)

The defunding of UNRWA in Gaza is not just by the US, but by virtually all donor nations.

Try reporting, not pretending America is the only country in the world.

wear goulashes with pride upon your faces when you dine,🍽️
wear galoshes smartly on your feet
when it rains ☔️

(so sayeth the master!)

wear goulashes with pride upon your faces when you dine,🍽️
wear galoshes smartly on your feet
when it rains ☔️

(so sayeth the master!)

‘Seattle Police Department
Commanders Recommended
Discipline for Seattle Police Officers
Guild Vice President Daniel Auderer’

Excellent.

Way to GO,
Commanders!

New Neighborhood Cafes?

“Some of the stuff I’ve said, kind of half joking, if we’re really, really concerned about people driving when they’re intoxicated, why does every community in Washington State require bars to have parking lots?”
-- Roger Millar, Washington’s state transportation secretary*

“Alcohol would be allowed to be served as long as food is also on the menu, potentially opening up the concept of a cafe to include small wine bars or taprooms.” --the Urbanist

that’s kinda Cool!

will they need to Comply with
basic Sanitary measures
or will the Free Market
ultimately Decide?

let’s give it
a shot!

*Transpo Secretary?
I LIKE the way
this guy
Thinks.

say, that Reminds me:
Sorry, Lions!
GO KC!

@14,

Because Lewinsky didn't file a suit against him?

@14 -- sometimes
a Cigar is just
a cigar.

@8 are you seriously going to blame this on Israel? I think @9 answered your "questions" sufficiently but I'm flabbergasted that you are going to imply the UN and Hamas are not fully culpable here. You have a relief agency providing RPG's to a terrorist organization. wow.

@14 we all know the only punishment acceptable for the activist crowd for anything SPD related is termination. They aren't going to be able to terminate the officer who struck her because the actual evidence shows he wasn't at fault so let's go after the guy who made a tasteless comment. A suspension without pay should be what happens but the activists need their pound of flesh. Meanwhile you have other city/school employees actively promoting genocide, which I kind of find tasteless as well, but no consequences for them of course.

@14, @16: Also, Monica Lewinsky always described their relationship as fully consensual by both parties — in fact, she took credit for having made the first move.

She also never wanted to talk about their affair publicly. She was illegally recorded talking privately about it by her “friend,” Linda Tripp, who had wanted to cash in on their “friendship” by writing a book about Monica’s relationship with Bill. (Such is friend$hip defined by Republicans, which yet again shows how “Republicans are horrible people.”)

@11 OK, so we're back to the UN employees being public employees. Like, say, cops who supported/participated in an insurrection. How long did it take those police departments to fire those cops, if they did at all? Did the local police departments have a responsibility to ensure that none of their officers were engaged in insurrection in their off hours? Or talking about it in the break room at work? After all, being a police officer is a position of public trust too.

As far as we know, none of the UNRWA personnel involved here were diplomatic representatives. They were local employees that Israel does not have the right to expel. I'm not entirely sure that Israel could expel UN diplomatic representatives from Gaza anyway. That is the right of the local government, which might be considered Hamas. Israel walks a fine line here on when they consider themselves the government and when they don't. They certainly won't when it comes to paying for reconstruction.

And you still haven't said what UNRWA should have done. Followed employees in their off hours to make sure none of them were up to no good?

I do abhor the Niners, but their fans are 56% less racist than Chiefs fans. It's a conundrum.

@Nathalie - YAY for Robyn!

RE: Missing woman just stuck on gondola
Apparently neither the woman nor the resort ever saw the other Frozen (the one without Elsa!) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_(2010_American_film)

@19 Until you can show that the UNRWA management knew that weapons were stored at their facilities, you can't claim that the UNRWA provided weapons to Hamas. Rogue employees likely did so, but they don't speak for the organization. The solution to rogue employees is to fire them when you find out about their activities. I mean, unless you planned to shoot them at dawn before trial.

Before you and Ahab say that every employee in a position of public trust speaks and acts for the broader organization, think for a moment about what that means for SPD, the IDF, and other organizations. I'm not sure you'd like that standard applied to organizations you support.

stuck* on
your Ski Lift
& wanna get
NOTICED? make
it Fucking Bounce

if it's not Windy
Someone'll
probably
Notice.

*drop a dime:
use your Cell
& call 9.1.1.

@21: If the police officers in question had been contracted by their employers to provide security to the Capitol, and had instead participated in a rebellion there, then their police departments should have known about it, yes.

(I’m not disagreeing with you so much as having fun with your analogies, which don’t really apply to an international body in a war zone.)

Meanwhile, someone at UNWRA Didn’t Get The Memo. From the bottom of the Al-Jazeera story linked at @17:

‘Chris Gunness, a former UNRWA spokesman, said the UN agency has weeks only before it runs out of money for its crucial aid work to save Palestinian lives in Gaza. More than 26,000 Palestinians have been killed since Israel launched its offensive on October 7.

‘“My message to the Arab world, particularly to the Gulf, is where are you? Because they’re making billions each day on oil revenues. A tiny fraction of those oil revenues would see UNRWA’s financial problems disappear overnight. This unconscionable gap inflicted by these Western countries would be filled very quickly,” Gunness told Al Jazeera.

“Some of the most desperate people in the Middle East are now facing starvation, they’re facing famine, and the Arab states need to step up to the plate.”’

Silly spokesman! To Arab governments, Palestinians aren’t for saving; they’re for being a thorn in Israel’s side, and for justifying terrorism against Israel. If those governments had wanted to resettle all of the refugees, they could have done so decades ago. Likewise, if creating an independent state in the West Bank was so bloody important, Jordan had twenty years to do so when it controlled that territory.

@25 that wasn't my question. You wildly speculated in your post @8 that Israel had knowledge of these rogue employees and chose not to act (thereby shifting responsibility for what happened on 10/7 once again to Israel). I just find it amazing you continually find ways to absolve horrible people of doing horrible things. It's both frightening and fascinating to behold.

@28 So you're back to following employees after work to see what they're up to. OK, well how does that work out. Let's see, we've got the USAF Reserve guy who was leaking intelligence from Ukraine. We've got the US Ambassador who was spying for Cuba. We've got the (Russian national) US Secret Service employee in Moscow that was a spy and was kept on for months after the US Embassy security officer raised flags about whether the employee was a spy. So that's definitely working super-well.

https://www.state.gov/todays-announcement-of-espionage-charges-against-a-state-department-contractor/
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217513411/state-department-fallout-a-former-ambassador-is-charged-with-spying
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/02/suspected-russian-spy-us-embassy-moscow-secret-service

And what was the action taken in all of these cases of an employee of the United States betraying a public trust? Firing them and prosecuting them when that was possible. So they can be turned over to Israel for prosecution.

By the way, it turns out the UN officials below the Assistant Secretary-General level do not generally have diplomatic immunity. And that the appropriate response identified by the UN for employees who break local laws is to refer them to the local authorities for prosecution.

https://www.un.org/en/coronavirus/know-your-legal-rights

@29 The US has a policy of alerting other nations, even adversaries, to imminent terrorist attacks. Witness that the US alerted Iran that ISIS-K was planning suicide bombings in Iran. If Israel knew that these UNRWA employees were Hamas or Islamic Jihad militants using UNRWA facilities for illegal purposes, you'd think that they'd alert UNRWA to shut down the activity. Because that would be in everyone's interest, right?

I'm not questioning whether UNRWA employees were part of the 10/7 attacks, nor questioning that those attacks were absolutely immoral. I'm questioning the leap that the UNRWA itself is responsible for the actions of rogue employees. Should the US Secret Service be defunded because they had a Russian spy in their midst, knew about it, and didn't fire them for several months? Because that's what you're asking by calling for UNRWA to be defunded.

And on a broader level, I am questioning whether the actions of some immoral people against civilians mean that it's open season on other civilians who happen to live next door to the immoral people.

@9 a document made ALLEGATIONS that could not be independently confirmed. If there's any evidence, like video or witnesses, the allegations could be independently confirmed by watching the video or contacting the witnesses. An allegation is not evidence. If you disagree I allege that you made a video calling Tanya Woo racial slurs and posted it to YouTube, then deleted it hours later.

@32 -- bingo.

the Nutnyahoo Doctrine:
bomb them to Smithereens
and let God sort it all out later.

@32: “And on a broader level, I am questioning whether the actions of some immoral people against civilians mean that it's open season on other civilians who happen to live next door to the immoral people.”

Yes, equating the IDF’s actions in Gaza with the Hamas terrorist attacks of 10/7 has been a great game for the Stranger, supportive commenters, and ambulance-blockading protesters to play. As @29 hinted, it’s been truly sickening to observe, though. And I’m really getting tired of noting the many real-world asymmetries glibly ignored by your symmetrical rhetorical construction.

What makes you believe the IDF is actively hunting (“open season”) civilians in Gaza? Because of the death toll? On a per-day basis, Hamas killed a lot more, with time to spare for a little (ok, a lot) of rape and mutilation on the side. The IDF also has much more destructive equipment than did Hamas, and operates in densely-populated urban environments. Yet the per-day death toll remains lower for the IDF, and without the rape and mutilation.

Perhaps what’s really happening in Gaza is the IDF protecting Israelis from more genocidal attacks by Hamas, and Hamas using civilians in Gaza for human shields against the IDF? Because that adequately explains the death toll to me, without need for any other explanation.

@26: Bouncing looks feasible (6-person Gondola cars) but maybe no employees or skiers looked up.

Also, she didn't have a phone.

First, get your wet feet outta my goulash. Second, I love that Robyn song very much. Third, before arriving here today I read an enlightening essay by Josh Marshall about UNRWA in Talking Points Memo. I highly recommend following his analysis. You'll learned that it's the context within which UNRWA operates--not the absence of documented evidence of certain individuals complicity--that reveals the story to be a nothing burger.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/about-that-un-hamas-story

@35 So Israeli soldiers killing unarmed civilians carrying white flags moving along declared safe evacuation routes is in furtherance of the protection of Israeli citizens? Snipers choosing to kill unarmed civilians in a convent is as well? No, that's just hunting from a blind.

If you demand that any UNRWA involvement in 10/7 demands immediate punishment of the entire organization, then clearly these types of war crimes do as well. Let me know when the sniper units get disbanded and the snipers are punished. Remember, of course, that killing civilians who have surrendered (aka carrying a white flag) is a war crime.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/13/shot-in-cold-blood-killing-of-elderly-palestinian-woman-sparks-outcry

@37 So please provide an analysis of the UNRWA security procedures in place on 10/7, how or if they were followed, where they failed, and who was responsible for their failures. Can't provide that? Maybe you're following your IDF heroes with some "Ready, Fire, Aim" tactics.

The LOAC absolutely does forbid killing of any person who has surrendered. In the case cited above, the civilians were carrying a white flag, were following a posted ICRC evacuation route, were not in company of any armed people, and were shot without warning. That is a war crime. Plain and simple. And the IDF has not, to anyone's knowledge, punished the people responsible in any way. At least the UNRWA fired the responsible parties. The IDF can't even meet that basic responsibility.

@14 raindrop, @16 mike blob, and @18 kristofarian: Because unlike journalist E. Jean Carroll, Monica Lewinsky is the GOP's wet dream, the consenting and conspiring Devil With a Blue Dress On. RepubliKKKans are truly horrible excuses for people.

@23 DOUG: +1 I share your frustrations about the SF 49ers and KC Chiefs. GO, SEAHAWKS!!
We'll get 'em next season.

@30: Um, yeah. I'd have to say that mostly working class white Kansas City, Missouri is about as systematically racist as the deep-fried MAGA-confused Southeastern Divided States, raindrop dear. Unlike Washington, D.C., that changed their NFL team name from the Redskins to the Commanders in light of the George Floyd murder in 2020, KC has openly balked at the idea of ever changing their NFL team name, the Chiefs, to anything else.

@39 shoobop:+1 Thank you for the reminders of what is truly good. Amen!

@20, before I forget, if your grandparents emigrated from Ireland during the Famine, they, your parents, and you can apply for and receive Irish citizenship, even if they/you are all gringos now.

While I find the news about the SPD leaders looking to suspend and / or fire SPOG VP Daniel Auderer somewhat encouraging news, it's not enough. I won't be truly happy until there is a PD pig roast coast to coast, weeding out all the shit in a uniform. We, the people need to end all the corruption, dirty money, systematic racism, use of military assault weapons, and unwarranted police violence. PERIOD.

It’s terrible and disgusting that the UN has factions that are corrupt and supervised by those with vague senses of morality. It’s terrible because this is so antithetical to what the UN is supposed to be. It’s disgusting because the UN was to be a universal symbol of hope. It’s like finding out Doctors Without Borders is a cover for an underground Percocet business.

I’m not really surprised because this is nothing new for the UN. Siblings and offspring of delegates in New York have used diplomatic immunity to beat and/or kill girlfriends, to drive drunk and kill families on the highway, slide out of parking and traffic violations (they can park anywhere….ANYWHERE…with impunity), and if the situation gets serious enough, the worst thing that happens is somebody flies their ass home.

The diplomatic immunity thing was written into the rules so that people, even the evil ones who wanted to rule the world, could come to New York without fear of being detained. It’s why Fidel and Nikita came. Don’t ever count on Kim Jong Un coming though. He’s so paranoid that when he rarely travels – even to his best friend’s house next door, he shits in boxes while away, and all the boxes return with him when he arrives back home. He’s frightfully aware of all the information one can extract from someone’s feces. You’d never know he was once a teenager who enjoyed riding in convertibles while attending school in Switzerland, would you? Fellow students say he didn’t talk much.

The UN needs to be re-built from the ground up. UNWRA needs to be shut down and condemned for breaking the rules.

A cigar is just a cigar, but a Newton is fig and cake.

And I love the idea of the Arab states pitching in to help, but yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

@48 How do you know that it's only a handful of people killed unlawfully per day? Those are only the ones we have video evidence of. And shouldn't you be concerned with any civilians killed unlawfully? After all, you are very concerned about civilians killed on 10/7. Don't Gazans have the same right to live as Israelis?

So you know that there are no UNRWA security procedures? How do you know that? Are you an expert in NGO security procedures as well as a former transit system union shop steward? What a diverse work experience you've had! Far more likely is that the security procedures aren't public, for obvious reasons.

@32 ok so here's how I read what you are saying. Allegations/evidence has come to light that members of the UNRWA were actively aiding and abetting a planned terrorist attack on civilians. Your immediate comment is that Israel probably had intelligence on these agents and deliberately chose not to act on it so that Hamas' attack would create an opportunity for them to invade the country. That's basically where you are going with your theory. Again I just think its amazing how you can take the despicable actions of one group and completely flip the scrip to blame the Israeli government without anything that would indicate that it is possible (except of course for you and Kristo's tin foil hats). Congrats on going fully down the rabbit hole.

@50

like passing the
Patriot Act and the
dick Cheney becoming
a Multimilionaire with Hell-
aburton nearly Overnight with
his No-bid Contracts "rebuilding"
Afghanistan (or was it Iraq?) can it
be Surprising if Nutnyahoo also chose
to turn a Blind Eye to an Invasion that'd keep
him Outta Prison for the Duration of the Conflict?

or maybe
BiBi's just Utterly
fucking Incompetent.

perhaps Both
can be
True.

@50 Actually, my first thought was in @2, but hey, who's counting? It seems likely that Israel had these allegations sitting ready for deployment at a moment's notice given that the document was issued with 48 hours of an embarrassing ruling at the ICJ.

It's not a stretch to ask what Israel knew and when they knew it. After all, Israel had Hamas' attack plan more than a year in advance and did nothing to prevent or mitigate the attacks. I'm not blaming Israel as a whole. I do think that their leaders will have a lot to answer for to their own citizens when the next elections come. Hopefully, it won't be a repeat of the 2004 US election.

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-hamas-attack-israel-gaza-6088cad78f5e4153d671fe9b5b819308

@51/52 There is no need to comment on the veracity of your claims since they are wildly speculative (I'd dare so along the lines of 9/11 was an inside job). My simple amazement in this thread and others before it is the speed in which you shift the blame from Hamas and their cohorts to Israel. It makes me wonder if there is anything Hamas could possibly do where you wouldn't end up indicting Israel. Like I said both frightening and fascinating to behold.

@53 That's a bit of a stretch. My question isn't analogous to whether 9/11 was an inside job. My question is very much in line with asking what happened in response to the Presidential Daily Brief item from 8/6/2001 ("Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US"). Unfortunately, Bush II didn't pay an electoral price for ignoring that threat. Hopefully Netanyahu will.

So you think it's just a coincidence that the UNRWA document was released within 48 hours of the ICJ verdict that's now almost forgotten in the media? How nice it must be in your cozy little naive world.

Yes, Nathalie, AI--or, in my opinion, ALI (Artificial Lack of Intelligence) scares the shit out of me.

Show of hands, fellow boomers: who remembers the Twilight Zone Season 5, Episode 17, "Number 12 Looks Just Like You" ? Rod Serling was right, decades ahead of his time on Earth, however shortened by cigarettes, and we should have fucking listened.

"What's the IDF doing? Dressing people up as Hamas and then having gun fights with them? That is the absurdest of conspiracy theory, that would have to include the Arab Press."

or
maybe
they're Murdering
Civilians and dressing*
Them up as Hamas fighters.

IDF
never
Lies. is
that Correct?

*although
why would they
need to? they've
fucking Impunity

or perhaps
pursuant to South
Africa's petition they're
no longer able to Destroy

the villages in order to save them

omg.
What a
fucking Blow.

END the
Madness
Mr. President
keep US outta
fucking Armageddon.

@51 & @57 kristofarian for the WIN!!!

@57:

“or
maybe
they're Murdering
Civilians and dressing*
Them up as Hamas fighters.”

Your tinfoil hat has now reached sufficient thickness to require removal by can-opener.

“or perhaps
pursuant to South
Africa's petition they're
no longer able to Destroy

the villages in order to save them”

In case you missed it, the ICJ denied South Africa’s request to issue a cease-fire.

@58: You should be ashamed of yourself for encouraging this. He’s crying out for help, not enabling.

@59

oh wormmy
your pleadings
bleatings and vile
projections have been
a Banshee's Scream for
Nutnyhaoo's Massacre to
continue unabated uncriticized
and Disaffected by the World's o-
pinion of the Terror Israel Continues
to rain down upon horror-stricken Gazans

your drowning
in DeNile not-
withstanding.

my tinfoilt hat*
disturbs you?
Excellento.

*you'll be delighted
to learn I'm get-
ting in a whole
New Roll from
Alcoa soon.

"The warrior can
do what they want,
at least until a warrior on
the other side stops them
with guns, artillery, rockets, etc."

-cap'n Ahab
moments before
being swallowed by
the White Killer Whale
of the International Court
of Justice for excusing genocide

or at least
assisting in
making it in-
Evitable. oops

a little Tuesday AM soundtrack
for your War on Gazans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ytkyn3vUU

@61 kristofarian: I still say teenieweenie's got lead in his tap water, and nothing better to do than command his right hand stooges, Cap'n Crunch and Necrophiliac. All three seem hellbent on chugging the MAGA Kool-Aid and sending senseless arguments into overtime.
Life must be hell out in the boonies.

nyt:
‘We Are Not Very Far From an Explosion’
--by Roger Cohen; 1/31/24

a wee excerpt:

Ehud Olmert, Israel’s prime minister from 2006 to 2009, describes the situation more bluntly and more personally. “Mr. Netanyahu is a greater danger than the war, in fact than all our enemies put together,” he told me.

“Since his first speech after Oct. 7, Israelis have appointed Biden president of the Zionist movement for life,” Olmert says. “He has the leverage, and he does not have much time.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/magazine/west-bank-palestinians-settlers.html#commentsContainer

it’s nice to see
someone Else* agrees
with me. Thanks, Mr. Olmert!

Free Israel:
Fire Nutnyahoo

and Shut It DOWN
Mr. President*
whilst ye
Can.

*thanks auntie Gee!

*I know
I Know Bazooka
Joe can't possibly
Fire Nutnyahoo --it's
Up to Israel to do That

and Godspeed
Israel.

@33: "a document made ALLEGATIONS that could not be independently confirmed. "

Wrong. Read the statement from the original AP story again, from which I quoted @9. These were findings of fact, based on actual information. The AP simply hadn't been able to confirm those findings (not 'ALLEGATIONS') before it published the story.

@40: You didn't provide a url, so I do not know which of your several favorite cherry-picked IDF 'atrocities' you mean. Is it the deaths of the three hostages during a batched rescue attempt? Because that's not 'hunting,' it's a classic military charlie-foxtrot. People get erroneously shot in war zones all of the time. (And there would've been no hostages to shoot if Hamas hadn't first kidnapped and then kept hostages, but as noted elsewhere in this thread, you seem intent on blaming the IDF, and only the IDF, for every last thing that goes wrong in that war.)

"If you demand that any UNRWA involvement in 10/7 demands immediate punishment of the entire organization,"

I made no such demand; in fact, I implied the opposite, that UNWRA was wrongly rushing to fire employees because of political pressure from the United States.