'Iran launched what Al Jazeera described as an “unprecedented” attack on Israel yesterday,'

Which is literally untrue, as Iran launched a missile attack on Israel earlier this very year.

"Israel’s near year-long, deadly assault on Gaza and the more recent attacks on Lebanon."

No mention of Hezbollah's near year-long missile launches at Israeli civilians, from Lebanon.

"According to Israel’s emergency service, Iran only injured two people who got hit by shrapnel in the Tel Aviv area."

Persons who get really angry at "indiscriminate" attacks upon civilians in that part of the world will, no doubt, arrive here very soon to condemn this, so I'll leave that typing to them.

@1: I'm not convinced that the October ballistic missile attack was indiscriminate. The missiles appear to have been aimed at military bases. Hits to civilian areas appear to be the result of missile fragments resulting from interceptions, ejected missile boosters falling to earth, or individual errant missiles. Iran's medium-range ballistic missile technology has come a long way since the old days of the Scud, so it's no longer a fair criticism to argue that they are just spraying missiles at random into potential civilian areas. Hamas and Hizbollah's artillery rockets, absolutely, but not these higher-tech Iranian ballistic missiles.

To be clear, shelling your enemy's country with ballistic missiles is an act of war, and Israel is entitled to hammer Iran with whatever degree of force and for whatever duration Israel deems appropriate. But not every act of war is a war crime, and I think the Iranians have managed to keep the play in-bounds on this occasion.

Also, can we take a moment to celebrate the SM-3 and Arrow-2 interceptions? This is exo-atmospheric combat! The Americans and Israelis are literally fighting the Iranians in space! I know not all the ballistic missiles were intercepted (and at something like $10 million per interceptor, that's probably a good thing), but still...freaking amazing!

Personally, I’m shocked there hasn’t been a ceasefire yet.
You’d think all those people voting uncommitted in the primary would have had more of an impact.

Let's put Averagebob's arguments about indiscriminate use of force to bed for good shall we.

The U.N. has not repealed Article 51, granting nations the right to self-defense, which they would have to if his reading of the 1977 Geneva Convention additional (not substitute) protocols is correct. Under his reading of the 1977 language of the Additional (not repeal) Geneva Conventions protocols, the U.N. right of self-defense in Article 51, is a war crime.

Under his reading of the indiscriminate attacks language militaries, have been wasting billions on tank armor. It would be far cheaper to chain a bunch of civilians all over a car with a cannon on it, and drive that into the enemy, since the enemy could then not fire on the tank without committing a war crime. Under his reading of the 1977 language, nations are wasting millions on missile silos, hardened in concrete, and buried in the earth, to survive all but the largest and most pinpoint nuclear device. Just put them in Central Park, or downtown Pyongyang. Such missiles can be launched offensively, and no adversary can legally fire back. Under his absurdist reading of the 1977 language, all Russia has to do to conquer Ukraine, is drive tanks and march soldiers into Kiev, surrounded by masses of civilians, chained to the weapons. Russia can fire from amongst the civilians, and Ukraine can't fire back without committing a war crime.

In 1977 they did not repeal the language of the 1949 treaty. They were additional protocols, not substitute protocols.

The very vagueness of the language, the lack of repeal of prior language, etc. is why many human rights lawyers acknowledge that the international human rights law they use, because its all they've got, is insufficient to protect non-combatants. It's why so few cases are brought under that law.

Then there is the issue of what international army, is going to enforce a human rights court's ruling against an army that violates it. If that enemy puts their weapons and troops in apartment buildings, and surrounds them with civilians when they come out to fight, the court can't enforce their own ruling, without violating their own law.

If everyone willingly complied with the Geneva Conventions then the U.N., and international human rights courts wouldn't be necessary. If they are necessary, then the U.N. and the courts, will need to an army to forcibly get compliance, and the ability to inflict collateral damage when bringing violators into accountability and compliance.

'Fushia raw silk
is something you wear
to summer garden parties, not debates.'

but it Matched so Well
Mabelline Vancelot's
Wonderful eye-
shadow.

sometimes
ya just Gotta go
with what Feels right.

@1
this "War"
on Palestinians
was Always gonna
Escalate and your insidious
Cheerleading's been, no doubt
a Big Contribution to bibi's Massacre
going (hopefully Not) Planet-fucking-Wide.

you & AIPAC: Two
peas inna Pod.

Anyone else ready to chip in good money to send Hannah on a one year sabbatical to live in Iran?

The vast majority of Americans are DeFacto Zionists, and there is a Jewish vote in this country the Harris campaign has no desire to alienate.

No mainstream Dem pol is going to say Israel doesn't have the right to retaliate when attacked with 200 ballistic missiles. That doesn't mean the J'Biden Admin isn't recommending that Israel be very precise in attacking the Iranian Regime.

But hell yes there needs to be a ceasefire amongst all parties. Don't hold your breath though. Hamas is intransigent.

@3 Why would "Uncommitted" have an impact? Many of us who voted that way in the primary are Democrats who knew full well we would be voting for Democrats in November. With Trump on the ballot, Harris-Walz has already picked up more support from Republicans who hate Trump than the entire Uncommited block ever represented. Loony lefties like Xina voting for Moscow Jill Stein isn't going to motivate Biden or Harris to move their positions. American policy towards Israel will not change so long as there is a large block to Democrats in the House and Senate who are owned by AIPAC. That is what limits what any president will dare to do.

Regardless of who you do or do not blame for the recent attacks and violence, Israel has not “started a war with Iran.”

"Palestinian officials said a missile killed a Palestinian man near Jericho, but it wasn’t clear that the missile came from Iran."

You mean "from Iran or Lebanon."

Who else thinks Andrea Suarez is sus? I consider myself a moderate Dem and agree with a lot of her policy positions but I get bad vibes from her. A recent article from Cascade PBS "Candidates to replace Chopp in 43rd District offer big contrasts" raised some ref flags tbh. Not a huge fan of Shaun Scott's positions but he comes across as the genuine and sane one here. Suarez has associated with MAGA Republicans as recently as this year (!) and has defended MAGA Republicans as "less corrupt" and just as extreme as Dems. I agree that Dems can be super corrupt and a few are fringey but to say that most to all Dems are worse than the most extreme Republicans is insane.

Suarez reminds me of that North Carolina state lawmaker that represented a super blue district that switched to the GOP, which helped restrict them pass restrictions on abortion. For those living in that district, vote for Scott please. I think Suarez is astroturfing or pretending to be a Dem so she can switch at the perfect opportunity.

"I hate war and I hate Biden for cheering it on."

No, Biden is desperately trying to prevent escalations. That's a fact.

Just a reminder that the missile defense system that prevents those Iranian missiles, as well as missiles fired by Hezbollah, from hitting their targets is part of those arms shipments from the USA that you want to embargo. In case it wasn't clear that pleas to stop the flow of arms to Israel aren't so much a call for peace as they are demands to disarm one side in an ongoing conflict. And pleas made for a "ceasefire" immediately after an attack are indistinguishable from calls for surrender.

Genuine peace requires all parties in a conflict agree to the terms. Asking Israel to submit to attacks without responding is a non-starter. Just as it would be if the USA were attacked, or any other country for that matter. "Stop shooting back!" is not a ceasefire proposal.

@12

Biden's not cheering it on he's just
Failing to make a Fucking STINK
because AIPAC's running OUR
Foreign Policy. Citizen United
Bitches. We've CEDED
our Control

it's just Sad
Smokin' Joe
backed himself
into a Corner when
he went to Israel bear-
hugged bibi & handed him a
comically-Oversized Carte Banche check

'just fill that in Later, friendo
we're Behind you bibi
WhatEVER it takes.
gotchyur Back,
Brother . Sic
'em'

and like
with the Furor*
from then on he was
Unfucking-contollable

Joe's Tryin' like Hell
but bibi no longer
Sees Joltin' Joe

Joe's
become
Invisible.

and Fuch Yeah
Joe's Regretting
the FUCK out of it

but it's too
Little too Late.

*is bibi Hitler?
oh fuck
no.

but he's
Left the
Reserv-
ation,
too.

@14: Do you believe the US should not have delivered to Israel the military equipment it needed to shoot down two sets of Iranian missile attacks?

@13 "Biden is desperately trying to prevent escalations. That's a fact."

There is no actual evidence of it so not a fact, especially when providing the armament and the diplomatic cover points the other way.

The vast majority of Americans can’t find Israel on a map let alone know what a Zionist is, not that public opinion has any impact on policy. Our bombs are going to Israel no matter what Americans want, and Netanyahu is going to do what he wants even if they weren’t.

see
wormmy
That's where
you and I differ

I say
Do NOT
Hand bibi a
BLANK FUCKING
CHECK and wish him
Keep-outta-Prison, Buddy!

but you wanna argue
fucking War tactics

THAT's where YOU've
Taken US. thanks,
Buddy! Appreci-
Ate You! oh &

remind the Jews
Worldwide they'll
all have you & bibi
to Thank for some UN-
Deserved retribution.* 'NO
One couldda seen This coming!'

sometimes I just wish
Jesus'd been Born
in Scandinavia.

*Jews did NOT
Earn this NOR DO
THEY Fucking DESERVE IT

@3 You aren't a very good observer of history since this is hardly the first time that the people's will has been ignored (remember most Americans are for a ceasefire and an arms embargo). In fact, regarding wars, disregarding the people's will is not a bug, it's a standard feature.

16 - That President Biden hasn't had success you expect doesn't not negate the fact that he and Blinken are making phone calls.

@7 I am foolishly staying open to Harris changing tack some after the election but it's not looking good given her taking a turn to the right on number of issues.

"But hell yes there needs to be a ceasefire amongst all parties. Don't hold your breath though. Hamas is intransigent."

Netanyahu has been the main obstacle to a ceasefire, by far, as shown by his willingness to consider hostages disposable (at best)

Your inability to provide evidence for your alleged facts negates them. This is how facts work.

@20: Franklin Foer had a great piece in the Atlantic last week on exactly this subject, “The War that Would Not End.” Well worth your reading time.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/09/israel-gaza-war-biden-netanyahu-peace-negotiations/679581/

Contrary to the AverageBobs and Kristofarians of the world, not everything in America is a conspiracy theory controlled by shadowy figures from “AIPAC” (wink, wink)

@20 Do you have recordings of those calls? so what are you talking about. What is a fact is that Blinken lied to congress regarding Israel blocking humanitarian aid so that the flow of weaponry could go on.

@20 -- I Wish
them Good Luck
but bibi's gone DEAF

all them
Bunker Busters!

"Blinken
lied to congress
regarding Israel blocking humanitarian aid... "

are they Trying
to Throw this
Election?

AIPAC
strikes
Again!

@23 the well known "conspiracy theory" that politicians lie when they want the public to believe something

AIPAC Cannot get
donold Back in
again Fast
Enough

more
Blank
Cheques!

and Dictators
as Far as the
Eye can see

I did Not
See this
one co-
ming.

@25 " I Wish
them Good Luck
but bibi's gone DEAF

all them
Bunker Busters!"

That made me laugh aloud

@15 The more relevant question is whether an arms embargo would have made Israel more amenable to seeking a political solution rather than seeking escalation

@13 The story that Israel was minding its own peaceful business when it was attacked is a lie. Israel imposes apartheid on Palestinians and steals their land in illegally occupied territories, which is the motivation for most of the attacks on Israel.

lol, Kristofarian on here melting down about the Zionist Occupied Government ha ha ha!

@31: Averagebob’s take on October 7: “The bastards had it coming.” 😄

I can only imagine what you must have been like after 9/11! But no, please don’t go there now, lol!

“Walz disgusted the non-genocidal faction of his party when he agreed with Vance in voicing support for Israel…”

No, he articulated a position that most Americans agree with.

@33 More evidence that you'll slander anyone who points out that Israel is the constant aggressor on Palestinians' right to a homeland

@32 is your constant signaling that you laugh a lot supposed to convince your readers of the comfortable validity of your arguments?

@32 well, it's hard to deny that AIPAC is playing a major role in American politics, including profiting from Citizen's United to buy elections in concert with Republican Billionaires' money

@34 In fairness to Hannah, it seems she's defined "the non-genocidal faction" as people who believe in (certain) magical solutions to complicated situations; which is to say you could both be... err, correct?

@36: lol, I am a cheerful and boisterous person. I have a ton of fun with life even right here on the internet! You no? 😁😁😁

By Averagebob's representations of the Geneva Conventions, Iran committed war crimes with its missile barrage.

One missile struck a school yard and destroyed a number of classrooms, proving the tech was insufficient to differentiate and target purely military objects. Therefore it was a war crime for Iran to have fired the missile in question.

Another allegedly Iranian missile's fragments reportedly fell on a Palestinian man in the West Bank, killing him, after the Iranian missile was intercepted by an Israeli one. Since the Iranian technology wasn't sufficient to evade interception by the IDF, where it could then fall on civilians, it wasn't a permissible weapon of war under the 1977 additional protocols to the Geneva Convention. War crime number 2, by Averagebob's previous comments and reasoning.

Ain't buying it Bob. Iran committed no war crime in firing those missiles at Israel, assuming they weren't intentionally targeting that school, with no intelligence to suggest is was being used by the IDF.

Maybe Iran fired deliberately at that school because the IDF had the school designated as a back-up command and control facility, making it a military, not civilian target. Now that argument would hunt, if that's true.

@40: Oh stop, AverageBob's not going to accuse the Iranians of war crimes! They're the ones arming the "freedom fighters!" 😛 You're arguing with your own shadow.

@39

well-played thumpfer!
your Glee at others'
Misery's most*
Commend-
able!

*you'd a'been a Riot!
at Auschwitz in
an SS Uni.

a regular
Hans Landa!

Strawman Thumpus stopped replying to what I actually say. He just finds it convenient to invent my replies in order to better shoot them down. What a slandering little goon he is.

moving from the
Comic to the tragic:

the Chris Hedges Report:
Where Olive Trees Weep: Pro-
cessing the Trauma of Occupation

The world has failed Palestine. The United States and European Union pay lip service to principles of human rights and democracy while providing limitless support to Israel’s genocidal project of ethnic cleansing and apartheid.

Western media outlets censor reporting of Israeli atrocities, and international humanitarian organizations require that Palestinians prove their victimhood over and over again.

Arab states, on the whole, remain silent and complicit.

In the context of so much injustice, the new documentary Where the Olive Trees Weep offers a rare view into the everyday experience and psychological ramifications of occupation.

Filmed in 2022 in the West Bank, the film follows Palestinian journalist and therapist Ashira Darwish, Israeli journalist Amira Haas, activist Ahed Tamimi, Dr. Gabor Maté, and others.

On this episode of The Chris Hedges Report, Chris Hedges speaks with Ashira Darwish and with the film’s directors and producers, Zaya Ralitza Benazzo and Maurizio Benazzo.

Zaya & Maurizio’s intention for the project was to explore the cycles of trauma inflicted by the Zionist occupation. Since long before the present genocide, Israeli forces have been using violence with impunity to punish popular and nonviolent resistance, and to inflict terror on Palestinian men, women, and children going about everyday activities such as attending school.

Consequently, the Palestinian experience is
marked ubiquitously by violence and loss,
& by the constant fear of further violence.

--Chris Hedges; Oct 02, 2024

(This interview is also available on podcast platforms and Rumble.)

oodles:
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/where-olive-trees-weep-processing?publication_id=778851&post_id=149700153&isFreemail=false&r=k7ee3&triedRedirect=true

we’re Spoonfed
the Corporate Line
and we’re supposed to
fucking VOTE? ah, Empire!

er, Sorry, thumpfer!

'Where Olive Trees Weep'
is Not a Comedy! tho
I'm Certain YOU'll
Find A Way. You
Always DO!

@24: No, I don't have recordings of such White House calls, and I doubt that would satisfy you even if I did.

@30: “The more relevant question is whether an arms embargo would have made Israel more amenable to seeking a political solution rather than seeking escalation.”

That’s speculation. I was asking whether the embargo should have been imposed. (Notice how kristo’ didn’t answer? Shocking!)

So, let’s get this straight: Iran funds the largest non-state militia in the world, which spends a year firing rockets at Israeli civilians. When Israel finally responds, as any other country would have responded sooner, it’s “seeking escalation.” Right.

@47

here's a wee
Taste:

nyt:

Biden
Says He
Won’t Support
an Israeli Strike on
Iran’s Nuclear Sites

His comments reflected a renewed effort
by his administration to seek restraint
from Israel to try to avoid a growing
war in the Middle East.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/02/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-weapons-biden-israel.html

careful there, Joe
you Know bibi’s
got a Temper

@49: Given Iran has now twice demonstrated it likely can’t hit Israel with any type of weapon, why would Israel bother with Iran’s nuclear sites?

Slandering little goon? Auschwitz guard? Worm tongue? You're calling random strangers names on the internet, what the hell is the matter with you! 😆😆😆 No else is doing it, either, it's just the two of you! 🤪

@50 A nuke requires considerably less accuracy to do considerable damage to Israel.

from the New Republic:

Trump Mocks
U.S. Soldiers Injured
During His Presidency

Donald Trump took
some time at a campaign stop in
Wisconsin to make fun of wounded U.S. soldiers.

“So first of all, ‘injured’—what does ‘injured’ mean? You mean, because they had a headache? Because the bombs never hit the fort,” responded Trump.

“There was nobody ever tougher on Iraq,”
he continued, confusing the two countries.

https://newrepublic.com/post/186651/trump-mocks-us-soldiers-injured-presidency

Cadet Bonespurs
at. his. Finest.

donold may not even
Make it till J/20:

paging Mabel-
line Vancelot:
gonna need
you in the
Oval Of-
Fice.

STAT

@51

'decorum'?
you post like
that & Demand
Decorum? you've
Vastly exceeded your
pull-by-date. sayonara

@53: For your own sake, though, wouldn’t you like to stop being the kind of person who calls people names on the internet? 😀

@51 Well, go figure, the 2 people you have been name calling as pro-terrorists, jew-haters, etc .. while laughing so many times instead of providing thoughtful rebuttals are calling you name describing your behavior. I would have thought that you'd like being a called a slandering goon given your propensity for dishing out slurs. It's also not random as you claim since the objects of name calling are you, because of your continual slander, and Tensorna (aka Wormtongue) for subjecting us to his never ending nonsensical and twisted verbiage spiked with outlandish put downs, and because he is no stranger to slander himself (should I pretend to be laughing here?)

Iran cares so much about human life they didn’t even bother to close down their own airspace before launching 200 missiles, causing their own domestic flights to try to divert and get on the ground.

https://viewfromthewing.com/flights-diverted-yesterday-to-avoid-iranian-missiles-after-they-failed-to-close-its-airspace-before-launching-attack/

@55: “pro-terrorists, jew-haters”

Those were accurate descriptions, though! 😃

Oh wow, Hassan and Muhammad Jafar Qassir both KIA! The schwackhammer keeps pounding! These are big, big names in terrorism getting X’ed over the last two months.

"Iran cares so much about human life they didn’t even bother to close down their own airspace before launching 200 missiles, causing their own domestic flights to try to divert and get on the ground." --@56

well
they're
pretty religous
so they were likely
busy, praying and fasting

it ain't always Easy
running a Church
And a State . not
like one might
like to think

and what Business
do those planes
Have flying so
close to Jesus
anyway . I'd
Love to
know
That.

@58

remove the Top
Waltz on in
who'll bibi
piss off
Next

he has no
Brakes ~ only
a gas pedal and
bibi's foot's on the Floor
.
Meanwhile
bibi Sends
US the Bill

complicity
can be
Pricey

Talking about out of control Zionists:

Israel bars UN chief from the country over Iran attack response

Israel’s foreign minister accused Antonio Guterres of ‘backing terrorists, rapists, and murderers’ and branded him ‘a stain on the history of the UN’.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/2/israels-katz-bars-un-chief-from-country-over-iran-attack-response

Last year, Guiterrez said that Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum and as we know anybody who says the truth about Israel has to be slandered as an anti-semite and terrorist supporter. Of course since Guiterrez didn't specifically condemn Iran but merely condemned escalation he had to be declared persona non grata. Do you see a pattern here?

@61: "out of control Zionists"

There's nothing "out of control" about PNGing the UN Secretary-General. A sovereign country gets to decide who comes in and who doesn't. By the way, they're not called Zionists, they're called Israelis. Say the name, it won't bite you! 😉

Also @61: "Last year, Guiterrez said that Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum and as we know anybody who says the truth about Israel has to be slandered as an anti-semite and terrorist supporter."

lol, people who hate Jews and support terrorism sometimes get called those things. Fortunately, they are only a small minority. Touchy, though, when the spotlight lands on them, isn't that right, Bob? 😉

The Israelis didn't PNG the Sec-Gen for his remarks last year, they PNGed him for his remarks today. After Iran shot 200 ballistic missiles into Israel, he immediately called for a ceasefire without condemning the missile attack itself. In other words: Iran gets to shoot, but Israel doesn't get to shoot back.

That's pretty much your exact position on Israel, Bob, so I can see why you'd leap to the Sec-Gen's defense, even if you're a little muddled about the exact sequence of events! 😀

After the Sec-Gen made headlines around the world for get PNGed, he quickly issued a statement saying that the missile attack was also bad. Balance is now restored. The tempest in a teapot now cools.

By the way, for those who follow Middle Eastern news from a military perspective, here is footage of some of those exo-atmospheric interceptions of the Iranian missiles. Space combat, seen from the ground, truly extraordinary to see something like this in our lifetimes:

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1841346681918406942

Not muddled at all, slandering goon.

One year ago Guiterres said that Oct 7 didn't happen in a vacuum. He was immediately labeled a supporter of terrorists by Zionists (I have used Israelis many times including today). Yesterday, Guiterres called for deescalation without mentioning neither Iran nor Israel. He was subsequently banned from entry in Israel and called a terrorist backer. So the lesson is don't tell the truth about Israel or Zionists will slander you.

@58 Israelis have been killing terrorists (and plenty of others too) for almost a century. May be you should ask yourself why this has been such a long conflict .

I know, I know you'll call me an awful anti-semite for suggesting that Israeli policies toward the natives may have something to do with it.

Are you planning on being done with killing bad guys anytime soon? because I am afraid you have generated a whole new generation of people not really in favor of a peaceful resolution.

But, please do go on with your celebrating

@65: "May be you should ask yourself why this has been such a long conflict"

Ha ha, if you think this is a long conflict, then you are even less well-read in Middle Eastern history than I thought! (Which might also explain some of your very particular prejudices, lol)

Also @65: "Are you planning on being done with killing bad guys anytime soon? because I am afraid you have generated a whole new generation of people not really in favor of a peaceful resolution."

Yikes, who do you imagine you're talking to? I haven't ever killed anyone in the Levant. What dark conspiracy theory have you fallen for now? 😂

@64: "Yesterday, Guiterres called for deescalation without mentioning neither Iran nor Israel. He was subsequently banned from entry in Israel and called a terrorist backer."

Let's recall the recent sequence of events. After 10/7 produced the largest single-day post-Holocaust slaughter of Jews, for being Jews, on land the killers had vowed to cleanse of Jews (is there a word for that kind of thing?), Hezbollah started belting northern Israel with missiles, driving Israelis there from their homes. After tolerating that for almost a year (quick quiz: how long would it take for the US to invade any country which hosted such activity against us? Please give your answer in number of milliseconds,) Israel has spent the last two weeks beating the tar out of Hezbollah, which just so happens to receive a lot of support from Iran. Iran doesn't like to be too obvious about Hezbollah being Iran's cannon fodder against Israel (hurts recruiting, especially when Hezbollah has a sudden need of lots more bodies), so Tehran had to Do Something. Something being launching missiles which risked hitting civilian airliners over Iran (!) towards Israel. Israel and allies deflected the attack.

Then, and ONLY then, did Guiterres call for a cease-fire. (Without mentioning the missiles Iran had just shot right past civilian airliners.) See why Israel decided he's not helpful?

@67: To be fair, he’s called for a ceasefire ceaselessly this past year, not just after the October Iranian attack. But you’ve got the general pattern right: the Islamic resistance shoots, and he either doesn’t condemn it at all or else condemns it while making excuses for it, but then he goes ballistic (har!) when Israel shoots back. PNGing him in front of the whole world was churlish, but it at least seems to have reminded him shooting at Israel is bad, at least temporarily.

@66 Unsurprisingly, in the midst of the silly put downs and slander typical of rhetorical goons, you have managed to not address the substantial issue brought up in my comment: the continual failure of military solutions in colonial conflicts. It's not like someone who claims to be educated about history (without showing it) doesn't have a slew of historical examples showing as much but as we know failure has never stopped oppressors as long as there is something to be gained by maintaining the status quo a little while longer, usually at great human cost.

"It's not like someone [like thumper, who studied at Oxford with JRR Tolkien?] [allegedly!] who claims to be educated about history (without showing it) doesn't have a slew of historical examples [thumper's got A List, a MILE Long] showing as much but [a Wormtongue wannabee, the Insults're Much more Gratificational] as we know failure [what!?] has never stopped oppressors as long as there is something [retribution?] [vengeance?] [Weapons testing?] to be gained by maintaining the status quo a little while longer, usually at great human cost." --@ab

does causing WWIII
thus keeping bibi
the Fuck outta
Prison count?

@69: "silly put downs and slander typical of rhetorical goons"

Ha ha ha! Stop your silly put downs you rhetorical goon! Nice one, Bob!

@67 "Let's recall the recent sequence of events. After 10/7 "

As Guiterres noted 10/7 didn't happen in a vacuum (000) and of course, nothing happened before 10/7 in your partisan narrative ...

(000) for which he was immediately labeled a terrorist supporter by Zionists *

"Hezbollah started belting northern Israel with missiles, driving Israelis there from their homes"

Hezbollah mostly (?) shelled military targets, with mixed results, that are embedded among civilian infrastructure. I am not excusing the shelling, which may be illegal according to Human rights law, but double standards will not do

"After tolerating that for almost a year"

Oh, so, many bombing raids over Lebanon killing 100's is "tolerating"?

"Then, and ONLY then, did Guiterres call for a cease-fire"

as already pointed by Goony the slanderer this is blatantly false

" See why Israel decided he's not helpful?"

He and the UN are not helpful to Israel's goals given Israel is a rogue state in continual violation of international and human rights law

I want to remind the rhetorical goons of this world that I am strictly for a political solution to the conflict and I do not support Hezbollah, nor Iran, nor Hamas, although I do acknowledge that many of their grievances against Israel are legitimate even if they are my political enemies (the leadership, not the people under their jurisdiction). I do not choose camps, i.e. the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. I live that bit to the simple minded.

@72 leave that bit (last line)

@72: "I do acknowledge that many of their grievances against Israel are legitimate"

Their chief grievance being its existence. I think you might be more on-board with the terrorists than you're willing to admit, lol!

@74. Projection.

Sparking an arms and terror race in the Levant is the dumbest of all possible futures.

The more countries slip into warfare, the more pressure on their neighbors and allies (that means you) to join in the cataclysmic fray. Say farewell to your dreams in a mushroom cloud.

If you tolerate this then your children will be next.

Vote. You have the right, god damnit. Choose to win.

@74 The key difference is that I do not support terrorist tactics and violence in general but of course, to a goon like yourself, political differences amount to the other being a terrorist. Keep showing how much of an autocrat you really are. You aren't much better than the theocrats you want to kill.

Also note that the Arab world had much less trouble living with Jews than Europeans until Zionists showed up to colonize Palestine. Even the Ottomans who were by and large very tolerant of Jews, banned Jewish immigration to Palestine once Zionists made it their objective (while allowing Jewish immigration to other parts of the empire). The closest genetic relatives to Jews are the Palestinians and there are very good for that including that some of these Palestinians descend from Jewish ancestors. Stop being a bigot.

@80: Ha ha, of course Arabs can tolerate subjugated Jews! A much harder question, at least for some Arabs, is whether they can tolerate sovereign Jews! (And you struggle a little in that department yourself 😉)

If you will someday trouble yourself to read a little bit of history of the Middle East, even just on Wikipedia—it’s good! I promise! Some of it is me!—then you will learn that while the Arabs and Ottomans were happy to rule over the Jews of Israel, the Jews of Israel often had other ideas about who should be in large of the land of Israel. There is a multi-millennia-long history of Jewish resistance to foreign imperialism, including Ottomans and Arabs among many others, that seems to have slipped under your radar. The Jews never stopped fighting for their land, never stopped returned from exile to their land, never stopped governing their own affairs on their land, not even under imperial rule.

It is a hard, hard thing to accept for a guy who thinks “Jew” means “white person from Europe,” but Jews really are indigenous to Israel, and that never stopped being the case.

You can find other reasons to hate Israel, if that’s your commitment, but Jewish colonialism isn’t one of them.

@81: “other ideas about who should be IN LARGE of the land of Israel. ”

Should be “IN CHARGE of the land of Israel.” Otherwise another flawless post from the iPhone of thumpus.

@72: I used the word "recent" in my description of why Israel got pissy with Guiterres. One of the reasons they did was his mention that 10/7 didn't happen in a vacuum. News Flash, Big G and little ab: nothing ever happens in a vacuum, so G's statement being redundant was the least of Israel's problems with it. (How many times does the UN respond to a genocidal massacre with the line about a vacuum? I'm guessing not often.)

'Oh, so, many bombing raids over Lebanon killing 100's is "tolerating"?'

Yes, when compared to how the US would handle such a situation on our border. Any sovereign state would have the right to invade immediately, and Israel did not.

"...as already pointed by Goony the slanderer this is blatantly false..."

@68: "But you’ve got the general pattern right: the Islamic resistance shoots, and he either doesn’t condemn it at all or else condemns it while making excuses for it, but then he goes ballistic (har!) when Israel shoots back."

@81 Most people here have gone around the internet block a few times already and the fake laughing is probably not projecting the aura of confidence that you think it is.

I don't have issues with anyone in charge, including Jews, unless of course they behave poorly such as in this case push out the natives toward neighboring countries or into quasi concentration camps (otherwise known as ethnic cleansing), illegally occupy their lands for over half a century in order to "impose a reality on the ground", and implement laws discriminatory toward non_Jews (i.e. an ethno-state) but these are topics that you'll deny or ignore in your reply as you have previously in spite of my insistence that you do account for these realities (which points to your bigotry as discussed previously). A side note is that the Ottomans apparently also had prominent Jewish individuals in position of power at times, not quite the picture you are projecting even though empires are empires after all.

I read Wikipedia all the time because I believe it is a good source on many topics and because it is non-profit. You are right that I haven't read a great deal on Middle eastern history (see confident adults do acknowledge their short coming); and, i'll take your word for it that the remaining Jews have opposed invading empires in Palestine for as long as it is useful to think about.

Now, the other reality that you purposefully ignore is that a) Palestinians have been in Palestine for at least as long as the Jews you were talking about according to reputable science (at least 3700 years), b) the Jews who remained in Palestine in the late 1800s lived mostly in peace with their Muslim neighbors, and c) dispossessing people who have occupied the land for many generations (and had nothing to do with dispossessing ancestral Jews) to give it to people who just stepped off the boat (otherwise known as colonialism) generates the never ending quagmire that Palestine has become.

As I have said repeatedly, I am not in favor of pushing Israeli Jews "out to the sea" (well, may be some of the most recent immigrants intent on stealing Palestinian land, depending on their means of relocating) because my purpose is not to create harm to innocent people but the grievances of Palestinians are legitimate and nothing short of addressing them will produce some peace in the region. My final word will be that ethno-states don't work in places occupied by several cultures as most places are nowadays so it's something else to think about.

@76, The dumbest of all possible futures would be unilateral disarmament of one side, so it can be annihilated by the other.

No SLOG on 10/5. Is The Stranger dead yet? Or did another reporter suggest violence against a POTUS or VPOTUS candidate?

@84: The Middle East is chock-a-block with what you might think of as “ethno-states.” Many of them even have words like “Arab” and “Islam” in the literal names of the countries. Virtually all are what you might think of as post-colonial states, with borders drawn by foreign powers. And without exception, every single one incorporates Islamic law into the civil law. So it’s a bit rich to condemn Israel as an illegitimate imperialistic ethno-state, unless you are equally hostile to the existence of Syria, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Sudan, etc, etc…which of course you are not. This is the Middle East. People from there like to have their homelands and govern them as they see fit. It is anti-semitic to deny the indigenous Jews the privileges and immunities enjoyed by the hundreds and hundreds of millions of indigenous Arabs, Turks, and Persians.

So I’m happy to hear you aren’t wishing to push the Jews into the sea anytime soon. Don’t tell Hamas you feel that way, though, because guess what it makes you? A Zionist! 😁

Now what about the indigenous Palestinians, you keep howling at me…for literally days on end, lol! Well, you can put away those genetic studies you’ve been waving around (and you’ll be a less racist person once you do), because genetics aren’t what determine nationality. There are plenty of Germans in the world, for example, but there aren’t any more Visigoths. Plenty of Brits but not any Celts, and so forth. Genes endure forever, but nations are transient. They come and they go. (Or, in the case of the Jews, they very inconveniently don’t go 😃)

While the ancestors of the Palestinians have been on the land for thousands of years, they have never formed a nation called Palestine. The ancestors have always been part of various other nations. (Some of the ancestors were even Jews prior to the Islamic conquest, but don’t mention that ancestry to a Palestinian today, lol!)

That’s the bad news. The good news is that just as nations like Visigoths and Celts sometimes go, new nations sometimes come. Although no one in Palestine was even calling themselves an ethnic “Palestinian” until the 20th century, the Palestinians have now established their own nationhood by sheer act of willpower and persistence. They are not part of Israel, and they are not any longer part of any of the surrounding Arab nations. Like the Jews, they, too, are indigenous to the land. They, too, deserve to govern their own affairs.

Now…shouldn’t you be fueling up an Iranian ballistic missile or something? Get back to work!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/03/slaughter-gaza-women-children-israel-7-october

@87: lol, the writer manages to publish a 900-word article on the war in Gaza without mentioning the word Hamas. Those mean old Israelis just woke up one morning and started shooting random people for no reason! 🤪 Read all about it in the Guardian!

@87, Collateral damage in a war? You mean it isn't all neat, nice, and surgical, with the combatants deftly moving amongst and around the civilian population while only killing each other? Shocking!

@86 I don't have time for a long winded answer so there it goes little slandering goon
- I totally oppose all ethno-states
- drawing of boundaries by colonial powers was atrocious, unfair (Kurds , Palestinians through the British mandates and old UN) and everything else but redrawing of boundaries has to be left to their populations
- the idea that Muslims are incapable of separating church and state is a racist myth. Many parts of the region saw moves toward secularism and even constitutional democracy in some cases after WW1 through the 60s (Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, etc). Secularism failed due to internal forces tied to economic development and also due to a very helping hand from imperial powers who hated seeing all that good oil money wasted on the well being of the natives (read on Iran and Mossadegh for a classic example - I recommend Wikipedia to which I am a regular contributor)
-the prior existence of a state of Palestine isn't relevant as long as the long term population can self-determinate
-Regime change from abroad doesn't work and often hides ulterior motives that have nothing to do with declared goals
-the use of genetics studies is critical to determine that Palestinians continuously occupied that land for at least 3700 years, longer than anybody else
-who was there first, and stayed there in this case determines the right of occupation not the belief in something that only you believes. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but the right to act on these beliefs ends where the right of others starts.

@87 Great article CD. You should comment more often

@88 How many 1000s of words did you write without mentioning Palestinians' rights until I shamed you into it?

@91. Too many cooks.

@90: Ha ha ha, what a meltdown! 😆 OK, fine, find me a Middle Eastern constitution currently in effect that DOESN'T ground itself in Islam!

Other than Israel, the closest you'll find is probably Turkey, but even in Turkey you'll find that: "Religious and moral education and instruction shall be conducted under state supervision and control. Instruction in religious culture and morals shall be one of the compulsory lessons in the curricula of primary and secondary schools."

Separation of church and state indeed, lol! 😆 You must be new to the Middle East!

Given that Israel has a couple of dozen nukes and has made it abundantly clear that they're not going down without a fight maybe their islamic neighbors should think things through a little...
On another note; could it be that no slog on 10/3 means ts is finally tu?

@95: Nukes look pretty decisive to western military science, but they are less significant to Islamic military science. When you are fighting qital, the military aspect of jihad, material considerations such as nukes are only part of the equation. The other part is the moral equation. If you are, indeed, fighting in the service of Allah, then you can expect Him to intercede on your behalf. He will send actual angels to fight alongside you. What can a mere nuke do in the face of such divine might!

Particularly when it comes to war against the Jews, the Muslims have many prophesies of victory. The Haidth Sunan Abi Dawud 3001, to take one example among many, makes clear the futility of Jewish resistance against the mujahideen. According to the Hadith, weak, unrighteous Arabs can sometimes be defeated by Jews, but mujahideen fighting in the service of Allah are guaranteed to win.

It may sound like happy horseshit to non-believers, but Muslims are convinced it’s true. I once met an ex-Al Qaida guy from Iraq who had fought the Americans in Fallujah back in 2004. I had always presumed the Americans had won the battle of Fallujah, given that we killed thousands of AQ fighters and took over the whole town. This guy had a different perspective. He was convinced actual, literal angels had descended to fight alongside Al Qaida during the battle. Any seeming success the Americans might have enjoyed was only a temporary lull. God was still gearing up to deliver the knockout blow any minute. This guy persisted in believing this stuff years later, despite having barely survived the battle himself and despite losing his parents, wife, and kids to an American airstrike during the fighting. (Remember: never mix your terrorist life with your personal life!)

So I think Israel’s enemies have a solution to Israel’s nukes: God’s gonna send down the angels when the big fight comes. There’s no way those Jews can possibly win! Now can I get a takbir!

@95: "Given that Israel has a couple of dozen nukes and has made it abundantly clear that they're not going down without a fight maybe their islamic neighbors should think things through a little..."

Looks like Iran already failed your test:

"The decision it ultimately made—to launch Tuesday’s missile strike on Tel Aviv and Israeli air bases—means that Iran is now facing potentially devastating blows to its own military or civilian infrastructure, opening an escalation spiral against a more powerful foe."

"Ironically, it was the threat of reprisals by Hezbollah and, to a lesser extent, Hamas, that was supposed to help dissuade Israel from any direct attack on Iran. Now, however, Israel’s success in degrading the two militant organizations, both considered terrorist groups by the U.S., has set the stage for a potentially bigger hit."

(https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-exposed-to-israeli-counterattack-after-blows-against-its-allies-4c65e888?mod=series_israelhamasnav)

Israel'll likley
Palestinianize
Lebanon next, then
Iran & then whomsover
bibi deems Invadable; the Question
being: can the Planet fucking Afford to

keep
keeping bibi
tf outta Prison

@98: Israel has stated many times the goal of attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon is to return Israeli citizens to their homes in the north of Israel. Any Israeli government would be attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon now. (As would any American government in a similar situation.) The government of a sovereign state has both the right and the responsibility to protect the citizens from attack, especially in their own homes.

"...then Iran..."

Iran has long maintained the terror-army Hezbollah on Israel's border. Iran has repeatedly attacked Israel with missiles, just this year. Do you really believe any other government of Israel would do differently? Or that any American government would do differently, in a similar situation?

Israel cannot Quit
Escalating 'cause if they
DO bibi's held Accountable
and he'll NEVER Allow That to
HAPPEN -- If eltrumpfster Steals
it bibi's Home Free so he's making it
Impossible for Smokin' Joe to get Elected

bibi played Joe for a Fool
and Us for Patsies aided
and abetted by Worm-
tongues planet-wide

and Endangering Jews
thru association which
is neither a Crime nor
a sin but That's Not
how it'll Play out
irregardless of
the Merits