Palestinian journalist, 19, killed in Israeli raid after receiving threats

Hassan Hamad was killed in an attack on his home in Jabalia camp, taking the total number of journalists killed to 175.
Israeli forces have killed Palestinian journalist Hassan Hamad in an air strike on his home in northern Gaza’s Jabalia refugee camp, days after the slain journalist said he was warned by an Israeli officer to stop filming in Gaza.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/6/palestinian-journalist-19-killed-in-israeli-raid-after-receiving-threats

I hope the Irvine Police enjoy their new Wankpanzer.

“CM Bob Kettle, ahead of a vote on surveillance expansion, says that Seattle protects free speech and expression. He has yet to comment on the protester who alleges his neighbor threw a speaker at his head…”

A check of the Stranger’s coverage shows no evidence CM Kettle was present during the protest, so why should he comment on something he may not have personally seen?

“Protesters did not see or interact with Kettle at their protest,” (https://www.thestranger.com/news/2024/09/20/79702394/black-activist-alleges-assault-at-protest-outside-council-member-bob-kettles-house)

“ I think Trump’s dismal record of packing courts with anti-union judges, stacking the National Labor Relations Board with anti-union appointees, and past promises to pass anti-union laws, coupled with his recent comment that striking workers should be fired, as well as a general dislike for paying people, should … kinda speak for itself. But it’s Trump, so it slides right off that slimy exterior.”

I’m quoting this as this needs to repeated and repeated. Trump is bad enough, but his “downstream” effects will, as we have already seen, will last for decades. There is absolutely a choice for the lesser evil, and it ain’t Jill Stein, folks.

Record emissions, temperatures and population mean more scientists are looking into possibility of societal collapse

The scientists said their goal was “to provide clear, evidence-based insights that inspire informed and bold responses from citizens to researchers and world leaders – we just want to act truthfully and tell it like it is.” Decisive, fast action was imperative to limit human suffering, they said, including reducing fossil fuel burning and methane emissions, cutting overconsumption and waste by the rich, and encouraging a switch towards plant-based foods.

[..]

The researchers said global heating was part of a wider crisis that included pollution, the destruction of nature and rising economic inequality. “Climate change is a glaring symptom of a deeper systemic issue: ecological overshoot, [which] is an inherently unstable state that cannot persist indefinitely. As the risk of Earth’s climate system switching to a catastrophic state rises, more and more scientists have begun to research the possibility of societal collapse. Even in the absence of global collapse, climate change could cause many millions of additional deaths by 2050. We need bold, transformative change.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/08/earths-vital-signs-show-humanitys-future-in-balance-say-climate-experts

“Journalists asked [Nobel Prize winner] Baker
if he had a favorite protein, but he
wouldn’t pick favorites.”

I like Steak.

“We've got a once-in-a-century storm brewing, too”
we’re Gonna have once-in-a-century storms
once-a-month then once-a-week
then on-the-Daily but
as Long as WE’RE
NUMBER ONE!
In the Drilling,
then Drill,
Bitches.

fucking
DRILL.

We’ll just hafta
'Get-Used-to' it.

“Over the past year, Israel has killed nearly 42,000 people.”
from Gaza to the West Bank to Lebanon to
wherever-the-fuck’ll-keep-bibi-the-Fuck-
outta-Prison, what Difference doth it
fucking Make? It’s just numbers!

OUR Billion$
HARD-at-Work

those wussy cops
emerging from Elon’s
wetdream of a Cyberpanzer*
without guns drawn!? Incongruous!

where’s the
Carnage?

*well-played,
Switfy.

It's Kamala's to lose, and she will if she thinks that she can "wing it" with her fluffy answers in interviews.

Where's your article - or even a small comment - on your hero - Former Seattle City Council member Kshama Sawant, who you hand picked to be our savior?

She's out campaigning in Michigan TO ELECT TRUMP! She sees no different between the two, and feels Harris is worse. So she is actively campaigning to defeat her!

Come on you cowards. Are gonna do a Fox News bit, and just ignore things you don't like? Or can you admit your hero is a dangerous FOOL?

Fuck this complete asshole Sawant. And fuck you cowards at the Stranger for always supporting this creep.

Even now.

Interesting column by Danny Westneat in today's Seattle Times about none other than Kshama Sawant: "A big Seattle name is in the election battlegrounds — helping Trump":
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-seattle-name-is-in-the-election-battlegrounds-helping-trump/

Is this shocking or surprising? I'd say this is about as surprising as the recent scoop by Bob Woodward that Trump has been having secret phone calls with Vladimir Putin as a private citizen.

This reminds me. I think the best explanation for this commenter averagebob committing so much of their day every day to posting on-message comments like those @1 and @5 is that they are a disinformation operative working on behalf of some shadowy organization which is getting its funding from right-wing interests. Hey, call me paranoid, but it's not like averagebob is going to provide any proof that they are a regular citizen with vast amounts of free time sincerely expressing their views.

I guess the upside is that we are likely to see averagebob disappear from our midst after November 5.

@7: undecided dipshits in swing states are absolutely not judging Harris on her interview responses. they haven't watched an interview with a presidential candidate in their entire lives.

it's just vibes and whether they decide to get their lazy asses to the polls.

@10 You're correct, ss long as "vibes" means whether it is likely that any candidate will make it possible for them to make it to the end of the month

@10: I disagree. Any nugget of clarity from Kamala is worth it. She's falling behind in the swing states!!

https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024/battleground-states

@9 So, in other words, actual news from established news media posted verbatim are "disinformation". Brilliant logic there since claiming these news items are disinformation is more likely to be the "disinformation", but to be fair it's more likely to simply be stupidity on your part.

For the record, I spend far less time commenting here than the pro-Israel warmongers, who clearly don't bother you very much. I am certain that if they were pro-Russian you wouldn't act this way. If you had any sense in you, you would be ashamed of yourself.

averagebob @13: "For the record, I spend far less time commenting here than the pro-Israel warmongers, who clearly don't bother you very much."

I suppose I'm less bothered by the "pro-Israel warmongers" because I view them as merely individuals with sincerely held beliefs, however deeply misguided and even sometimes repugnant, and vast amounts of free time. Unlike your posts, their posts don't arouse my suspicions as being part of a coordinated effort to manipulate.

Hey, you're always welcome to prove me wrong. Of course, you will say there is no proof I would be satisfied with, as if these online identities of ours could not be traced to real human beings who could be tracked down outside of these comment threads.

@10: They say politics is a game of addition. You just gotta keep adding, communicating, reaching out, to the very last day. You're advocating complacency - which is essentially subtraction.

Seattle's libertarian bona fides are on display again…property rights (ie, moar cops) are more important than human rights (housing and other basic needs). Until that needle shifts, I don't see much change happening.

"a coordinated effort to manipulate"

if posting news items about major issues is manipulating according to you, so be it. I don't care.

I am not going to expose myself to being outed anymore than I already do by commenting here on a regular basis so you are going to have to live with your "suspiscions". Now fuck off.

averagebob @17, if I've upset you by questioning the authenticity of your trolling (and yes, I would consider some of these "pro-Israel warmongers" "authentic trolls), fine by me. In today's media environment, we are awash in disinformation and deliberate attempts to manipulate, and I am happy to do my part to call it out when I see it.

As I have done before, I would point people to your full comment history, as voluminous as it is, to see why I have these suspicions:
https://www.thestranger.com/users/79529046/averagebob/comments

"... as if these online identities of ours could not be traced to real human beings who could be tracked down outside of these comment threads." --@14

translation:
we don't Like
your Comments.
consider This whilst
we locate your ass for
further Considerations.

come visit!
we'll have avacado
toast and discuss the Dow.

@18 I am not trolling. Everything I say should be taken exactly as the meaning of the words indicate.

I hope everyone will follow your link to my comments and reread them all for good measure. I stand behind almost everything in them.

Now, move along if garbage is all you have to contribute.

@1, @6, 13, 17, boatgeek, CDKathes, Greenwood Bob,

Here is a verbatim quote from PBS's Weekend Newshour from October 6, 2024 for you:

"81% of Palestinians think Hamas' Oct. 7 attacks were justified; 84% of Israeli Jews think the current actions in Gaza are justified."

So the brutality of the war is the way the underlying populations, by majority or large plurality, want it to be. That won't end until one side, the other, or both ends the hostilities.

War is measured by its utility in getting a result. It's not about justice or human rights. It never has been.

averagebob @20: "@18 I am not trolling. Everything I say should be taken exactly as the meaning of the words indicate."

Of course, this is what you would have us believe. 8-)

Well, for that money I certainly hope the PTB are planning on implementing a much more rigorous vetting process for these "experienced officers" than they have previously - oh, who am I kidding? This is Seattle: "Come for the ridiculously huge hiring incentive, stay for the head busting and hit-and-running!"

As for the crosswalks, I imagine the same homophobic dip-sticks who did this are out there on the comment boards somewhere complaining about the city "wasting taxpayer dollars" on repairing the damage they did.

@18:

It's pretty rich to see someone posting repeated comments under an anonymous handle questioning the "authenticity" of another poster also commenting using an anonymous handle, but clearly the irony is lost on you.

COMTE @23: "It's pretty rich to see someone posting repeated comments under an anonymous handle questioning the 'authenticity' of another poster also commenting using an anonymous handle, but clearly the irony is lost on you."

I dearly value my privacy (and my continued employment), which is why I steer clear of social media. I am only posting here because I can post anonymously. But it's also obvious that I'm just some independent citizen sharing their own views.

As long as all of us are posting under identities which cannot be plainly verified, then these comment threads are subject to disinformation and sock-puppet trolling. I think we can all see how these threads have become a cesspool lately. Are you happy about that? I'm not, and I'm going to call out those commenters who I believe are up to something beyond just spouting their own ignorance.

As a sometime contributor/reader of SLOG AM, I have to say I have no suspicions regarding AverageBobs activity, nor anyone's for that matter. Some of the topics understandably arouse passions, and it's not particularly difficult to chime in while in the office break room or on a bus. As for distinguishing between honest and consistent posts that are contrary to Stranger dogma and trolling, that's above my pay grade.

If there is bad faith behavior out there, its the Stranger itself, which attempts to gaslight readers into a very dogmatic set of policy positions and dress it up around trendy cultural news - see the cool show Friday night, but don't forget to march to eliminate the police department Saturday!

This is especially bad for younger readers, who ought to be invited to explore a constellation of lenses in order to better understand issues. Growing up in Cleveland Ohio we had an alternative publication that featured contributors that ranged from libertarian to Marxist, punk contrarians to fussy art intellectuals. It is tragic to be living in a time when it is recognized that young adults are stressed to freely express themselves, yet publications such as this one contribute to the problem. It is a wonder comments are even allowed on this venue.

I gotta add to that fucking joke of a pig wagon... I bet the chief of police for Irvine gets caught getting head from an escort while doing lines of columbian bang-bang they siezed the night before in that cyberPOS. I wonder if they understand that their DARE ride was built by a guy that does more drugs than Delorian sold for his stainless steel wondercrap.

How exactly does someone prove the intentions behind their comments and why does it matter? Whether he is communicating his actual beliefs in earnest or, I don’t know, posting from a Russian troll farm…??? his comments stand or fall on their own merits. Most of the time he is quoting verbatim from sources he provides so you can judge for yourself.

It’s not like opposition to a violent and deadly US-backed war effort is some fringe position that only a secret operative could come up with. He is basically echoing the editorial stance of the stranger.

@24 ~ "... and
I'm going to call out
those commenters who
I believe are up to something be-
yond just spouting their own ignorance."

upta something surreptitious?
like our lil' Newborn thumfper
perhaps I share your concerns

tho Why on earth
might Pooty send a
chatterbot Here @tS?

"I am not trolling.
Everything I say should
be taken exactly as the mean-
ing of the words indicate." --@20

exactly.
if Anyone's
trolling it's yours, truly

I know I know
Don't Feed
the Trolls

too
late!

@21 ...and 100% of the Israeli government supports the ongoing war crime of Israeli settlements in Palestine/ the west bank.

A poll asking whether people believe actions are justified tells you nothing about support for the ongoing war. You can also find polls showing majorities of Israelis and Palestinians support a ceasefire if you look for them.

“I believe our actions/response were justified but I want it to stop” is a completely normal and coherent belief because most people don’t like living in a war zone, not that anyone in charge is asking the public. This war will continue as long as the people calling the shots believe it is to their advantage.

Senior Israeli officials are saying Hashim Safi-ad-Din was, in fact, killed in the October 3 strike. Still no confirmation or denial from Hizbollah. Astonishing that Hizbollah cannot say with certainty who its current leader is. An entire division of Israeli troops are fighting in Lebanon for the first time since 2006, so the need for Hizbollah leadership has never been more urgent. Perhaps the leaders’ minds are elsewhere, so to speak. I’m upgrading the probably of Safi-ad-Din’s death to 5:1 in favor.

Mid-level Iranians continue to deny that Esmail Qaani also died in the Safi-ad-Dine strike. The Israelis aren’t claiming him, either. A fish as big as Esmail Qaani is pretty hard to hide, so although it’s suspicious that he hasn’t made a public appearance and even more suspicious that the Supreme Leader hasn’t weighed in, I’m downgrading the probability of his death to 3:2 against. Still, the schwackhammer isn’t done pounding, so General Qaani may see his day yet.

@31

yes
and
Ain't
War fun!?
Gloating!
Gleefully!
Gratuitously!

cheerleadingly.
all that so-called
Collateral Damage?

it
ain't
You. you'e
either At the Table

or On it.

“'I believe our actions/response were justified but I want it to stop' is a completely normal and coherent belief."

It's not a coherent belief. "We will cause the largest number of deaths in any war in our opponents history and not expect them to strike us until they are certain we have lost the capacity to keep on striking is not a coherent or realistic belief."

Any Israeli government, be it the current authoritarian/dictatorial Netanyahu government, or one farther to the left, understands that if they let up on any of the "seven fronts" they are fighting on now, and Israel suffers attack of even half the size of the 10/7 on their watch, and they are politically done. There is a worse political fate than being out of power in Israel at the moment. It's getting into power and suffering additional attack after some sort of ceasefire you implement. Your party then goes into the political wilderness.

For Israel's part, they can't fight at this level forever. It's not coherent to rest on their current roll of tactical victory after tactical victory. What's the strategic endgame? What does victory look like? What is the day after look like? At some point, bouncing the rubble does no more to degrade your enemy and becomes a better recruiting poster for the next wave of terrorists than anything Hamas or Hezbollah could come up with on their own, and they were damn successful on their own.

War is a blunt instrument, with the most risk of unforeseeable consequence.

On the plus side for Israel, Saudi, and other Sunni states on the Gulf, see more threat from Iran than Israel. More threats from Hamas type groups trying to take them out from within, than Israel from without. They see the U.S. continuing to draw down in the Middle East, leaving them looking for a more committed ally. One that shares a threat with them. I.e. Israel. For that reason Hamas will fail in a major objective for initiating 10/7 when they did, which was to stop normalization between Saudi and Israel. Saudi just needs enough of a ceasefire, or even slowdown in the hostilities, to hang a fig leaf on, and normalize with Israel.

@33: Israel’s best chance for long-term strategic victory is regime change in Iran. So long as the Islamic Revolution is in charge, there will not be an end to the Islamic jihad. The Iranians can always find more Arabs to dupe into dying for them.

Regime change in Iran will likely require something on the scale of decades, perhaps even as long as a century. That’s a long time to keep fighting in American terms, but it’s not so long in Middle Eastern terms. Plenty of conflicts have gone on far longer.

Although the short-term prospects for regime change in Iran are poor, there are encouraging signs. Low-level ulama in Tehran can’t wear their clerical robes on the streets or they’ll get stoned by civilians…or even stabbed! Seminarians are encouraged to dress in civilian attire for their own safety!

free bibi
free Gaza
free Israel

End the Madness
End the Massacre.

Good pushback by thekossack @25 and barth @27 to my questioning the credibility of comments by speculating on their source.

thekossack @25: "If there is bad faith behavior out there, its the Stranger itself, which attempts to gaslight readers into a very dogmatic set of policy positions and dress it up around trendy cultural news - see the cool show Friday night, but don't forget to march to eliminate the police department Saturday!"

Yes, The Stranger's news wing has become the worst offender when it comes to this sort of fact-based propaganda, and here we are feeding on it and amplifying it.

barth @27: "How exactly does someone prove the intentions behind their comments and why does it matter? Whether he is communicating his actual beliefs in earnest or, I don’t know, posting from a Russian troll farm…??? his comments stand or fall on their own merits."

This is a legitimate perspective. Such is the nature of this sort of forum.

Regime change in Iran? Everything that is going on today in Iran results from the previous regime change we forced in Iran, i.e the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953

Overthrow: 100 Years of U.S. Meddling & Regime Change, from Iran to Nicaragua to Hawaii to Cuba
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/3/12/100_years_of_us_interference_regime

@5 -- my latest
Missive from
Bernie:

Dear kristofarian
[yean we’re Close],

Please look around.

Two weeks ago, Hurricane Helene barreled into the Gulf Coast and Southeastern United States killing hundreds, displacing thousands and causing billions of dollars worth of property damage.

As you read this, Milton, a hurricane that went from a Category 1 to a Category 5 in less than a day, is set to make landfall near Tampa Bay. We hope they’re wrong but the National Weather Service says it could be the worst storm to impact the city in a century.

And if you think these "storms of the century" are happening almost annually now, you would not be mistaken.

But there is more.

This year was the hottest year on record with the planet's hottest month on record. You will recall that not long ago significant parts of the country were living through the longest heat waves they'd ever seen.

There were weeks where hundreds of millions of Americans experienced temperatures above 90 degrees and heat records were set in hundreds of cities.

And the science is as clear as it is foreboding: unless we get our act together, the future will look far worse than the present, as hard as that might be to imagine.

Unless we get our act together, our kids and grandchildren are going to continue to see rising global temperatures that will lead to shorter lifespans and worse mental health.

Unless we get our act together, we'll see increased instances of food and waterborne diseases; increased drought and exposure to wildfires that will mean more heart and lung diseases.

Unless we get our act together, more and more parts of the world will become unable to sustain human life, resulting in an increase in mass migration, social unrest, and war.

This is reality.

This is our future.

This is the planet we are leaving for our children and for our grandchildren.

Unless we get our act together.

And that has to start with defeating Donald Trump this November. It must.

Because if Donald Trump wins, the fight against climate change and our ability to protect the very health and habitability of our planet for future generations is over.

Done. Finished. And that is not an exaggeration.

Donald Trump believes climate change is a "hoax" perpetrated by the Chinese.

Donald Trump has told oil company executives that if they donate $1 billion to his re-election campaign, he will overturn much of the progress made on this issue by the Biden Administration — and that it would be a bargain for them if they did.

Yes, I have my differences with the Biden-Harris Administration on a good number of issues. I suspect you do, as well.

But let us not lose sight of the fact that we are staring at a very fundamental choice with respect to climate change, and nothing less than the future of our planet is at stake.

Let me repeat that: nothing less than the future of our planet is at stake.

So it starts with defeating Donald Trump.

From there, we must organize to get Congress to pass, and President Harris to sign, legislation that transforms our energy systems away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energy. And we must demand that China, Europe, and every carbon emitting country on earth does the same.

more, presumably:
https://berniesanders.com/

fawking
Socialists

@37: “ Everything that is going on today in Iran results from the previous regime change we forced in Iran, i.e the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953.”

lol, I think the Iranians might have something to do with “everything that is going on today in Iran,” ha ha ha!

33, Not only is it a coherent belief, it is one that is held by large numbers of people currently living through this war, if the poll numbers are to be trusted. If a majority of people say their actions were justified and a majority also say they want a ceasefire, then a large percentage of people — possibly a majority — believe both of these things at the same time.

Whatever that number may be, the poll you cited does not say what you claim, because “do you want this war to continue” was not the question they were asked.

@40, We want to slug you in the nose, kidnap people, kill people, and then yell ceasefire. This isn't a childhood game of tag where you can yell "no touch-backs", "freeze," or "base."

Once you put a war into motion, you can't predict what the other side will do, or when they will tire of pounding the hell out of you. It is incoherent to put that in motion and expect anything different. "Limited war," or "humane war" are non-sequitur. Likewise with a counter-attack. It's incoherent to expect the target to just sit back and refrain from the counter-counter attack.

41, What in the fuck are you even talking about.

Again, the poll doesn’t say what you think it says. Here, this is actually very simple:

60% of Israelis support ceasefire deal

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-finds-60-of-israelis-back-proposed-hostage-for-ceasefire-deal/

63% support ceasefire deal

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-815105

53% say it’s time for the war to end

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-deep-divisions-on-gaza-war-goals-as-post-october-7-solidarity-dissipates/amp/

To be conservative, let’s take the lowest number (53%) and add it to your 84%, giving 137%. The excess of 100% — 37% — is the minimum percentage of overlap between the 2 poll questions. Thus we can infer that anywhere from 37 to 53% of Israelis believe 1/ the war is justified, but 2/ it’s time to end it. This is a completely normal, coherent pair of thoughts shared by millions of people living through a war inside their borders.

Perhaps more to the point, the polls I cited actually ask the question you mistakenly believe your poll asked.

“We need to be clear about what our goals are,” Sawant said in a speech on Sunday in Dearborn, Michigan. “We are not in a position to win the White House.

“But we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.”

“This is ground zero to punish Kamala Harris and defeat her.”

All quotes from comrade sawant, aka Trump enabler sawant (I wonder if she’ll be amongst the immigrants Trump will forcibly removed - only time will tell). Hopefully the Muslims in Michigan have a more evolved sense of self interest than POS like Sawant.

@27: “It’s not like opposition to a violent and deadly US-backed war effort is some fringe position … the editorial stance of the stranger.”

The Stranger’s editorial positions are fringe FOR SEATTLE, one of the most far-left cities in the country. The Stranger has been relentlessly pushing the pro-Hamas position for an entire year, resulting in a total lack of success in convincing anyone. (Or, to put it another way, “Gaza Isn’t Driving Votes.”)

The lack of awareness in your comment was simply stunning. Are you on the Stranger’s staff?

Opposition to the war in Gaza is a pretty common opinion on the left and you’re reading a lefty blog.

@39 It is historical fact that the CIA and British intelligence services organized a coup to take down the democratically Mossadegh government and install the Shah Pahlavi in its place. Pahlavi violently persecuted and eradicated the secular opposition. Only its religion opponents remained as an organized force thanks to secretive religious institutions. After the 1979 revolution against the Pahlavi dictatorship, the mullahs formed an oppresive theocracy that hasn't relinquished power through the present.

Despite your denial, regime change neoconservatives like yourself bear the main responsibility for the state of Iran's governance like that in many other places. Iraq being another prominent case in point. Neocons' ignorance combined with their incompetence is truly the bane of the world.

@46

what they lack in humility
they make up for
in hubris

all's they truly
Want is to
RULE the
Fucking
World

is that
truly Too
much to ask?

@45 ~ with a right wing
bent commentariat
to boot

@46: lol, Mossadegh’s government was never democratically elected, the coup would have happened anyway, mullah is the wrong title for Iran’s leaders, and the responsibly for Iran’s conduct rests with Iran, not any other party. Woof, Bob… 😄

So its a balmy early October Sunday, and a happy throng of Average206ers are enjoying themselves at the Ballard Farmers Market. Then suddenly, paragliders careen down from the canal and land on the brick lanes, ski masked soldier types hopping off and readying their assault rifles. In tandem, vans cloaked as farmer suppliers now open their doors, disgorging scores of heavily armed men.

The Duwamish Liberation Front has arrived.

The massacre was Carthaginian - Leary Ave. ran like an open sewer of blood. Men, women, children, killed, tortured, captured.

The DLF declares total war against...King County. It demands the "white colonialist enterprise" be eradicated. Its more than 2 million non-native inhabitants must vacate or be driven into the sea.

The DLF possesses curious advantages over other violent national movements; the occupier population is far less than say, Israel, with its 10 million.

More importantly, perhaps critically, they have Average206ers, hordes of them. Average206 - a mode of thought, a vessel of theory that can condense any thorny or complicated issue into the size of a fortune cookie, place a moral crown upon itself, ennoble butchery and terror to their charge, while giving themselves license to break all social conventions within their own polity in furtherance of the mission.

One does have to wonder what an Average206er would have to say should such a calamity befall Seattle. No, we already ready know what they would say if they were intellectually consistent. The actual question is whether it is socially acceptable among them to be intellectually sleazy.

The gliders have landed in Ballard, Average206.

What say you?

so -- which Is it? "lol, Mossadegh’s
government was never
democratically
elected"

or

"It is historical fact that the CIA and British intelligence services organized a coup to take down the democratically Mossadegh government and install the Shah Pahlavi in its place."

the one who claims
anti-zionism to be
anti-semitism or
the one that can
distinguis Fact
from Fiction?

think I'm gonna stick
with ab ~ the record
speaks for Itself

trolling trolly Troll
where ya been
so long?

@50: “the record speaks for Itself”

Ha ha ha, do tell! So what was the vote tally for Mossadegh there in that “democratic election” of his? 😉

@49: It’s a fun hypothetical, but there are enough differences between North America and Palestine that I don’t think it illuminates anything.

On a moral level, Jews have a stronger claim to Israel than white Americans do to King Count. The Jewish nation is indigenous to Israel, which is not the case for whites in King County. (Although resident “Jew Skeptic” AverageBob will be along shortly to deny Jewish nationhood, Jewish history, and Jewish indigeneity.)

The Palestinians have a stronger claim to Palestine than the Duwamish do to King County. If you read the first sentence of the first article of the Treaty of Point Elliott, you will find that the signatory tribes “cede, relinquish, and convey to the United States all their right, title, and interest in and to the lands and country occupied by them.” And if you read the signatories, you will find at least three signatories for the Duwamish Tribe. So that’s the end of the Duwamish land claim. By contrast, the Palestinians never agreed to the creation of Israel…although, of course, their agreement was not required because they were not and never had been the sovereigns of the land. Still, the Palestinians can rightly claim never to have agreed to any of this, while the Duwamish cannot.

So I have far more sympathy for Palestinian land claims than I do for Duwamish land claims. The Duwamish got their lands in a treaty. The Palestinians deserve the same.

Mossadegh was elected to parliament where he was elected prime minister. The British made the Iranian economy scream by preventing them from finding buyers for their oil so even without the coup Mossadegh may have fallen because of market manipulation by colonial powers. Mullah is a common term for Iran's clergy. The people of Iran are certainly not responsible for these despotic regimes; your political kind strangled their democratic republic and created the necessary environment for the autocrats that followed since the 1953 coup. And now, you'd like to double down as it is plain that you refuse to learn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

@53: lol, I’ll take pity on you, because you’re spiraling a little bit. The way Iran’s constitution worked in the Mossadegh era is this: the shah nominates a prime minister to the majlis. The majlis votes up or down on that nominee. If the vote is yes, the shah confirms.

We have an analogous system in our country for the appointment of Supreme Court justices (actually, all federal judges, but I’m assuming you are more likely to have heard of the appointment process as it applies to the Supreme Court). The president nominates a justice. The senate votes up or down on that nominee.

Now, Average Bob, I hope(!) you would not say that Supreme Court justices in America are “democratically elected.” Would you say that they are? Would you say that Brett Kavanaugh was “democratically elected” to the Supreme Court? No, right? Well, Mossadegh became prime minister the same way, so if Brett Kavanaugh wasn’t democratically elected, then neither was Mossadegh! 😀

One more point on Iranian civics. The shah at the time had the constitutional power to remove the prime minister. He exercised that power against Mossadegh. Mossadegh refused to vacate the office. At that point, he ceased to be the constitutionally appointed PM and became just another third-world tinpot dictator. The dude was ripe for a coup, with or without the CIA.

Finally, on your abuse of Islamic titles: Mullah is a common term all right, but not for the leaders of Iran, ha ha! That’s like saying the Catholic Church is led by a preacher named Francis. It’s not literally wrong—the Pope does indeed preach!—but it misses approximately 99% of who he is.

All right, that’s enough from Professor Thumpus for tonight. You go hit the books! 😁

Mossadegh was democratically elected to parliament multiple times and put up for a vote as prime minister because he was the head of a powerful coalition that couldn't be ignored by Pahlavi. Your analogy to Kavanaugh who couldn't be elected as dog catcher is indeed worthy of a "professor Thumpus" alright (am I supposed to posture and signal a fake laugh here?).

"The shah at the time had the constitutional power to remove the prime minister. "

Pahlavi was a monarch installed by the British after his father trampled the constitution when he deposed the previous monarch. Mossadegh life's work was to promote progress and democracy in Iran and he was trying to give the boot to the monarchy.

"The dude was ripe for a coup, with or without the CIA."

At least you aren't pretending to be a democrat. It's good that you let people see who you really are.

Finally, you don't understand how theocracy works. It would never work if only top leaders represented authority.

@49 Self determination of a people is the relevant operative concept in international law, whether they were part of a sovereign nation or not is irrelevant given many people were colonized before nation states were born in their regions; however, the first rule of thumb is to do no harm, which rules out returning the land many generations after it was taken away. Except perhaps for huge tract of lands owned by individuals/single entities. Some form of compensation such as land, services, education, etc ... for native populations is necessary. I don't consider that Israeli immigrants have any special rightful claim to the land but I am not for pushing them out either when they have been there for several generations or if they have nowhere else to go. It's also not for me to decide.

@45: The Stranger’s positions on many political topics are fringe by Seattle’s standards, and Seattle is a left-wing city by American standards. After almost a year of trying to make Gaza drive votes, the Stranger had to admit, “Gaza Isn’t Driving Votes.”

Read all the “lefty” (by which you seem to mean, “hard-left extremist”) blogs you like, but if doing so deludes you into believing the Stranger’s positions aren’t “fringe,” then you might want to expand your horizons a bit.

@42, And you call all that "coherent".

co·her·ent

adjective
adjective: coherent

1. (of an argument, theory, or policy) logical and consistent.

Over 80% support by Palestinians for 10/7 and by Israelis for the current conduct of the war is "coherent" with the polls you cite.

That is "coherent" with the polls you cite? Maybe humans aren't being as "coherent" as their minds will allow.

Then there is the issue of conflict between what people say (e.g. a poll) and what the do. If there is divergence, believe what they do, not what they say. Everyone is still fighting. Combat goes one.

@55: “Mossadegh was democratically elected to parliament multiple times and put up for a vote as prime minister because he was the head of a powerful coalition that couldn't be ignored”

lol, Mossadegh wasn’t even a member of parliament at the time he was appointed prime minister. He was out of office, a regular citizen. There was nothing “democratic” about his appointment and confirmation to prime minister, not anymore than there was about Justice Kavanaugh’s appointment and confirmation to the Supreme Court. Getting elected to AN office in the PAST doesn’t mean you’ve been “democratically elected” to a DIFFERENT office in the PRESENT, ha ha ha!

And of course, there’s that little problem of his refusal to vacate his office when ordered to do so by the shah, as the constitution required of him. Refusal to vacate office is not something “democrats” do, lol…in fact, Donald Trump tried to do something very similar on January 6, and it didn’t strike me as very “democratic,” ha ha! Iran is well rid of a “democrat” like Mossadegh.

The fact is, Iran has never had democracy. They didn’t have it under the shah, they didn’t have it under Mossadegh, and they don’t have it under the ulama. You can cry for Mossadegh if you admire him so much—I don’t—but you can’t call him the “democratically elected” prime minister of Iran. No such election ever happened.

But of course, nothing about Mossadegh, democracy, or the CIA justifies Iran’s continued support for terrorism around the Middle East, including Hamas, Hizbollah, the Houthis, and the Iraqi special groups. You can’t let Iran off the hook by pointing to US involvement in a coup against a dictator 70 years ago, a coup which would have happened with or without America. Iran is responsible for Iran’s actions. Nothing they do is the fault of America. I think on some level you do admire terrorists and hate America, and if that’s your thing, well, OK buddy, agree to disagree, but blaming America for it is just silly. Iran’s gotta own their stuff, and you’ve gotta own yours 😃

58, Bro, you misinterpreted a poll. I don’t care about anything else you have to say.

57 ok well i guess you’re just going to have to stay mad about it

@59 Mossadegh was elected to parliament in the constituency of Tehran from April 1950 to April 1951, upon which he was elected prime minister from April 1951 to August 1953. Contrarily to your claim, Mossadegh was in parliament when elected prime minister. Therefore, you are either blinded by your hate so that you can't even objectively compile basic information or you are a liar.

Anyhow if anyone is still reading your propaganda, they probably have already read the trajectory of Mossadegh at the link I posted above. if not, here it is again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

Stop misrepresenting what I am saying: I don't "admire" Mossadegh. I don't think that Iran was an ideal democracy but Mossadegh was actively working toward turning it into one. Note, there are many countries that we consider democracies that elect a parliament yet do not directly elect their leader (hint hint).

It is indisputable that imperial powers directly caused the fall of Mossadegh (both by a coup and creating an economic crisis) and the end of the democratic experiment in Iran to install a dictatorship, and creating the conditions that prevent a democracy blooming in Iran.

I don't blame America. By and large, Americans are a peace loving, compassionate and fair minded people. I blame neoconservatives and corporate media whose propaganda manipulates Americans into supporting wars of aggression.

"I blame neoconservatives and corporate media
whose propaganda manipulates Americans
into supporting wars of aggression."

(not to Mention
Dedicated to the
Death of the New
Deal the Great Society
and pretty Much ANY-thing
that works FOR the fucking Citizenry.)

me too.
AND the
bots they send
to Progressive outlets
working to eliminate Progressive
Voices -- like Wormtongue* thumper d13r et a;l

*not a bot
perhaps but a
propaganda-spewing
"liberal," exiled from Seattle
to the East Coast yet Still Dedicated to
shutting down Seattle's Onliest Newspaper
& its little Blog full of misfits riff raff & assorted
FDR- LBJ- Bernie fucking Sanders-supportinig types

Great comment
"averagebob."

@57 The Stranger is middle of the road left. You claiming they are extremists says more about your hard right positioning than anything else.

It’s interesting to me how people who are presumably centrist or even left-leaning anti-Trump but are militant supporters of far-right regime in another country. I suppose it’s easier to compartmentalize because you aren’t affected by their extremism and can just focus on the single issue you care about.

@57: "The Stranger is middle of the road left."

Then why have the voters of Seattle consistently rejected the Stranger's candidates and policy proposals in multiple general election cycles? Is Seattle not "middle of the road left," by American standards?

@65: I'm more worried about persons who are supposedly far-left actively campaigning to elect a far-right candidate here at home. From @43:

“We need to be clear about what our goals are,” Sawant said in a speech on Sunday in Dearborn, Michigan. “We are not in a position to win the White House.

“But we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.”

“This is ground zero to punish Kamala Harris and defeat her.”

@66 America is middle of the road left as shown by the overwhelming support for most of Bernie Sanders' progressive platform, the compassion for Palestinians among the public, etc .. How it translates at the ballot box has more to do with election turnout, demographics of the majority of voters, who controls the media, and who buys elections. There are objective reasons why the right wing suppresses the vote, promotes money in politics, defends the structural factors that enable a tyranny of the minority, etc

@65 "presumably centrist"

I believe that you'll find that they align with the right wing on most issues.

@67: I was going to note that I was actually talking about the behaviors of actual voters in real elections, but then I read the rest of the paragraph, and saw you had already donned your tinfoil hat to ‘explain’ why your un-named public opinion polls do not match actual election results — not even in Seattle. So I won’t bother.

Instead, I’ll merely note that, by definition, America is a perfectly centrist country by American standards.

@69 well, it's not like you have any facts available for a cogent rebuttal so your reaction makes sense.

68, I think a lot of them are to the left on the big domestic issues — abortion, gun control, pro-gay rights but lukewarm or hostile on trans issues — but dismissive of anything considered too progressive or “woke.”

Basically it’s boomer liberalism: never supportive of the current civil rights movement because “now is not the time” but happy to hop on the bandwagon when the fight is over. And very militaristic whenever duty calls.

@4 Teslick and @43 Buddhamat: +2 for the WIN!!

@71 I tend to view economic issues as fundamental to the left-right divide, which I note are absent from your list of big issues but may be you had it covered under the "too progressive" label.

@8 smells like urine and @10 Max Solomon: I read Danny Westneat's Op.Ed. article in The Seattle Times, too, yesterday. WTF is the world coming to? And Mitt Romney isn't helping VP Kamala Harris's 2024 campaign for president, either.
He says [in The Seattle Times, Wednesday, October 9, 2024, page A2] that he "won't support Harris"
but instead wants his voice to be heard to "rebuild and reorient [the Republican party]".
Bullshit. Mitt Romney is just another white male RepubliKKKan who's too chickenshit to ever elect an intelligent, qualified woman President of these Deeply Divided States over a convicted felon and global terrorist.