No one should be gleeful that a team from Florida won the Stanley Cup.

I would like to commend trans activist and lawyer Chase Strangio for the Supreme Court decision blocking gender affirming care for minors. It was Strangio's arguments before the court, that "gender affirming care" does not reduce "completed suicides", that guaranteed the Supreme Court would uphold Tennessee's ban on experimental medical treatments for children.

American parents will no longer be held hostage by the idea that "it is better to have a living daughter than a dead son." That emotional blackmail simply won't work any longer.

Thanks again, Strangio! You will be an icon amongst conservatives for decades to come.

Driving off the ferry dock is really dumb. All I can imagine is 5 panicked teenagers in a stolen car. This being Seattle mayhem, there will never be any follow up with additional information.

We need to bomb the Fordo uranium enrichment site with a 30,000 pound bunker penetrating bomb that only the U.S. has. Only the U.S. has an aircraft capable of delivering it.

Will TACO actually do what needs to be done? Or is he all talk?

@4 - we do not need to bomb Fordo. In fact, it is ridiculous on it's face to suggest we drop a 30,000 lb bomb on ENRICHED URANIUM.

In your opinion, how many American soldiers (mostly from working class families with few, if any, of our enlightened elite class) must die in order to satisfy the Neocon thirst for blood?

Mossad and the IDF are doing a fantastic job so far. Let them send their soldiers into Iran, where they can occupy and secure the nuclear facilities while minimizing the risk of uranium fallout. The US can support them by supplying intelligence, re-arming the Iron Dome system and shooting down Iranian missiles.

I think our throwback President has some fantasy about dragging the USS Missouri out of mothballs so he can sail it up to the top of the Persian Gulf and compel Khameni to sign the instruments of surrender on the foredeck. Problem for him is, nobody in Iran reads Truth Social. You can barely read Twitter there.

@2 It's cute that you think most people in Tennessee can actually read well enough to understand what any of this means.

@3, that dipshit must have thought he was Remy Julienne: https://youtu.be/pmzxuxKQv-8

@7 - I imagine most Tennessee parents are smart enough to know when their children are being threatened. Certainly they understand the differences between boys and girls.

Tennessee's doctors are surely smart enough to understand that if they continue providing "gender affirming care" for minors, they will be fined, lose their medical license and potentially go to jail.

Plus, this Supreme Court ruling ensures that "GAC" prohibitions in 26 other states remain in effect.

Wild to think people voted for trump thinking he was an “anti-war” candidate but it goes a long way to explaining how so many people end up surrendering their life savings to a Nigerian prince. The threat of nuclear war is always unsettling but with Trump and Hegseth at the wheel and weird ass messianic christian freaks like huckabee whispering in their ear, it’s downright terrifying.

Just another day when you are all reminded there was a difference between Harris and Trump.

@1:

Agreed. I've always been of the opinion that any city where there's literally no possibility of extensive below-freezing temperatures - and for that reason Seattle just barely makes the cut - shouldn't even have an NHL team.

@2:

Thank you for, once again, demonstrating to one and all what a fucking horrible person you are. Y'all scream about "PARENTS' RIGHTS!!!", but then turn around and show your true colors with things like this. So far as you're concerned "parents' rights" only apply to the things YOU want to do: banning books even hinting at subjects that might make your butt tingle or make you feel even the slightest sense of guilt over your otherwise unabashed racism; banning any study of the actual history of this country over the mythological "history" presented from a solely white/Christian/heterosexual perspective; banning any orientation in actual reproductive health aside from "just say no to sex", etc., etc. Fucking craven hypocrites, the lot of you.

"Mossad and the IDF are doing a fantastic job so far. Let them send their soldiers into Iran, where they can occupy and secure the nuclear facilities"

Iran is a country of 49 million with an active-duty military of 610,000. Israel is a nation of 9 million with an active duty military of 170,000. The IDF has three parachute regiments of roughly 1,000 men each, for a total of three thousand. The only air-transport aircraft they have is the C130 which holds 64 men. It would take over 100 C130, flying 800 miles, to deliver just one of those three regiments. The IDF has 13.

Even with Israeli air-supremacy on a long tether, at a very long range of 800 miles from a friendly base, operating off of air-tankers for refueling (but not rearming), Iran can throw enough men and reinforcements at an air-dropped, or air-landed, regiment (or smaller unit), faster than that regiment can shoot them. To rearm and IDF fighter with more bombs and missiles the IDF fighter must fly a 1,600 mile round-trip flight.

Iran is operating on their home turf and can bring men and weapons to bear faster than the IDF can reinforce and re-supply any air-landed element.

Fordo is an obvious target. The IDF won't have the element of surprise where they can hit quick and overwhelm a small garrison, get the job done, and get out. Iran, unless they are stupid, and they aren't, should have already reinforced the guard at Fordo, in well fortified positions, and stockpiled more weapons and ammunition for them.

Logistics win battles, absent complete surprise. Home field advantage matters a lot in this case. Whoever gets to the point of attack the fastest, with bombs, bullets, and men, wins.

It's not logistically feasible for the IDF to do as you suggest. Iran can make an IDF paratrooper assault a suicide mission, even with a half-competent effort.

@10, That is why someone has to be prepared to use force to enforce the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty for signatories that refuse to comply. Without a mechanism to forcefully and coercively stop proliferation, proliferation will only accelerate. That is a more dangerous world for U.S. citizens.

It's the @4 Neocons versus the @5 Isolationists!

What hell Slog has become.

@3, Polls at the time indicated that Washington voters would have overwhelming reinstated police pursuits had the Legislature failed to do so. The Legislature, under Democrats, bowed to the inevitable, and honored the will of the voters.

We are less safe when people know they can speed with impunity because when the police light them up, they can just drive away because the police were prevented from pursuing the vehicle until they can stop and positively identify the driver. Knowing the registered owner of the vehicle doesn't get the police the driver, since the registered owner has no obligation to say one word to the police about who, if anyone, they loaned the car to, under the 5th Amendment.

So you had a teenage driver. Police were likely unaware of the age of the driver. A traffic stop is a necessary step to identifying the driver to figure out things like age and identity.

The teen had agency and choice, combined with a teenager's underdeveloped decision making skills. That isn't the police's fault. It isn't the governments fault.

It's a tragedy for sure that two teens died, and three were injured, before they could grow out of the stupid choices phase of life; but culpability for deaths and injuries here lies solely with the teenage driver and the police have zero culpability.

File this under something only Megan Seling and I will be interested in, but I went to her USA Today link about Corey Perry and hockey. The key line: "Perry has the unfortunate honor of holding a unique hockey record. After last season's Stanley Cup Final loss with the Oilers, Perry became the first NHL player to lose four Finals with four different teams."

Wow, Corey Perry is the anti-Patrick Maroon of the Stanley Cup Final. (Also, I admire Megan for leaving out the salaciously SLOG-worthy tidbit about how Perry lost his previous job with the Blackhawks.)

In response to DOUG. @1, in the Stanley Cup playoffs, once my Pittsburgh Penguins are out of the picture I always root for Sun Belt teams and other more non-traditional teams over Canadian teams and Original Six teams and other more traditional teams. In light of recent political developments with Canada's sovereignty coming under attack--and just wanting to see Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl finally get the monkey off their backs--I tried switching my allegiances for this year's Final and rooting for Edmonton. To be honest, I tried; my heart just wasn't in it. DOUG. is right though. DOUG. is a better person than I.

On another topic, with all the problems our nation and the world are facing--and with all the challenges people have to face in their daily lives (just speaking for myself here)--it's quite remarkable the time and energy that outspoken MAGA people are able to devote to trans rights. For all that it affects their lives and the world, they might as well be launching a political movement around Britney Spears's conservatorship.

@12 - I've never once called for, nor would I support, a book ban. I do believe however that school libraries cannot hold every tome ever written and therefore must make choices about which books are appropriate for their students and which books are not appropriate. Of course the parents have a lot of say, since we know public schools cannot be trusted. No book has been banned in my lifetime, just drop into Barnes and Noble and grab yourself (or your child) a copy of anything you like.

@13 - you make good points and are clearly knowledgeable about the situation. That said, I think Mossad, masterminds of both the pager attack and the Israeli drone base inside Iranian territory, can engineer their own successful attack.

If an American bomber were to be shot down by Iran, it would ignite another 20 year Middle East war that the American people have zero appetite for, and which incidentally we cannot afford even the monetary price tag.

Go back to your buddies at Raytheon and tell them, not only NO, but HELL NO.

@16: I didn't say jack about police pursuits.

I'm speculating on the age of the driver and passengers; it wasn't in the linked Time article.

Iran will not attack US positions for the simple fact that it would be a suicide pact for their leadership. The US military is quite capable of blowing shit up - it’s the nation building that gets them in trouble (and given our current leadership, I’m fairly confident in saying we would stop at blowing shit up).

Insert your favorite meme for why the US doesn’t have universal healthcare (example, the US has more combat aircraft then the rest of the world combined).

@20, So if they are teens, it effects the public policy response to prevent this tragedy how? Are you going to propose people don't get drivers licenses until they are 25. How would knowing they were teens (likely) change or effect anything? How would that allow us to change anything to prevent such a tragic outcome from someone refusing to pull over for a traffic stop in the future?

The police not being held criminally responsible for high speed chases =/= the police do not endanger public safety by engaging in high speed chases

Of course they’re not going to be charged but that is a separate question from whether there is evidence to show that police activity can encourage behavior that endangers public safety

Honestly today’s comment thread could have stopped with @1

@16 "We are less safe when people know they can speed with impunity because when the police light them up, they can just drive away because the police were prevented from pursuing the vehicle"

No, we are less safe when police unnecessarily escalate situations by engaging in high speed chases with people suspected of non violent offenses.

@11 your overall point is not wrong but:

“Make no mistake, the United States is fully, fully, fully supportive of Israel,” Biden said.

Kamala Harris, Biden’s vice-president and the Democrat nominee described Iran as a “destabilizing, dangerous force in the Middle East,” adding: “I will always ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself against Iran and Iran-backed terrorist militias.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/01/biden-reaction-iran-israel-attacks

@18, They have to get a radar lock on it first. Good luck doing that on the B-2. Iran has not succeeded in bringing down an IDF F-35 for the same reason. Nor will a B-2 go into Fordo first, or go into Fordo alone. Lots of F 35's will go in first with F 18 Growlers to detect, attack, and neutralize any air-defense systems.

Is it possible we could lose a B - 2 over Iranian airspace? Yes. It is extremely improbable. Is that risk worth destroying uranium enrichment infrastructure and personnel at Fordo? Yes.

Without a mechanism to forcibly and coercively enforce nuclear non-proliferation, North Korea will be the first of many rogue states to develop nuclear weapons. Once Iran goes nuclear, so do the Gulf states in response. What could go wrong?

Modern technology and knowledge proliferation has greatly lowered the barriers and costs for a state to go nuclear. It's no longer the province of G 20 countries with well developed economies.

@15,

I wouldn't trust either of those dim-witted idiots to carry out foreign policy decision making in a game of Risk, though there's probably some satisfaction to be derived from watching two feckless, shit-brained idiots negotiate such issues in the comment section of an alt-weekly. And at least Neale is consistent in his advocacy for a deadly armed response at any stage of any situation imaginable. What a goddamn freak.

This Supreme Court decision is a win for humanity. A win for the tomboys and effeminate gay boys and all children to live their childhood through puberty into adulthood free from the ramifications of gender theory evangelizing by teachers and even parents. That they can go through the turbulence and pain of adolescence that all of us experience including those who are victims of mental, physical, and sexual abuse and be able to sort those things out naturally -- without their distress being channeld by adults as gender dysphoria. Yes, tragically there are cases of kids exploring trans just to get away from an abuser. Childhood should be a time free from irreversible decisions. Children explore, they change minds. They outgrow. And far too often they say they're something they are not just to appease an adult. Children are immature.

Puberty blockers are not entirely devoid of developmental and lifetime effects in bone health, fertility, and cognitive and emotional brain development. Not all the science is known. Repeat. Not all of the science is known. Those experiencing a bad time with it or detransitioning are met with hostility and are seen as traitors rather than trying to understand their path for the greater good of all and for science.

This decision by no means precludes adult trans people from living happy fulfilling lives. It simply preserves the first rule of the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. It allows our youth to come to their own conclusions in an intact body that isn't changed by a procedure they were too young to make a decision about. I've done a lot of research and reading about this in the past two years, and I don't see how any sane person can come to a different conclusion.

Let this haunting self-reflection never come from a child again:

"I wish somebody could have saved me from myself!"

@13 The population of Iran is 92 million, not 49 million.

@22, Lack of police chases causes more speeding and reckless driving that endangers us all.

If pulling over so you can be identified and ticketed (or arrested) is optional, then why not speed and drive recklessly, provided you are willing to assume the additional risk to your own life?

Highly visible traffic enforcement saves lives according to the research.

https://www.ghsa.org/news/research-confirms-roadway-safety-benefits-traffic-enforcement

To give people tickets requires stopping and identifying the driver. Under the U.S. Constitution, drivers, not cars or non-driver car owners, commit, and are culpable for, traffic infractions. That makes a traffic stop, to positively identify the driver, a necessary precondition for citations.

Traffic camera tickets are only paid voluntarily. But that's a different discussion.

@28, That research is for traffic enforcement, not high speed chase, and it says traffic safety is increased through secondary effects like increased seat belt usage and reduced distracted driving because people are concerned about getting pulled over if there are more police on the road.

Research from a police think tank on the actual topic of high speed chase disagrees with you:

https://apnews.com/article/police-vehicle-chase-pursuit-deaths-policy-ed2fe37280cec57e4377491348cc661d#

As a general rule I trust independent research over some random gasbag online who thinks he’s an expert in anything he can google, but not actually understand lol

@28 your argument is basically "two wrongs make a right." Speeding is bad, so police need to speed to catch speeders. Fortunately actual experts disagree:

https://apnews.com/article/police-vehicle-chase-pursuit-deaths-policy-ed2fe37280cec57e4377491348cc661d

@26 You're even worse than WereBackBaby because at least he doesn't pretend not to be a piece of shit.

There are decades of research on puberty blockers and the side effects are minimal.

Your first clue that this is a product of a transphobic moral panic should be that puberty blockers are still in use for cisgender kids and no one is the least bitcconcerned about side effects. Your second clue should be this concern is only coming from bigots with no skin in the game besides their visceral disgust for trans people.

@NotMyopic

What are your thoughts on nuclear fallout from a strike on Fordo or Natanz? Is that a realistic concern (I imagine so) or can they breach the container without spilling the contents?

If you thought widespread contamination were likely, would you still feel bombing these sites is justified?

A clue of an immature impertinence is illustrated by those who can't articulate their reasoning so they resort to lashes out with projections, insults, and profanity.

Doctors and scientists were so enamored with the benefits of lobotomy that the doctor who originated the procedure was awarded the Nobel prize in Medicine.

"Trust the experts!", Barth's grandfather was heard screaming. Anybody who opposes lobotomy is a bigot who hates mentally ill people!

@34 We spent far too many years being nice to you people and ended up with a child molesting felon in the white house because of it. Time to start calling a spade a spade. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to trans people... so you should stop talking about them. Stop doing research and reading and actually talk to them. They're human. They can tell you everything you need to know.

More trans kids WILL kill themselves because of this... regardless of what WereBackBaby and his "icon" think. A bunch of straight cis gendered people shouldn't get to decide this anymore than a bunch of old men should get to decide about abortions.

@34, A lot of big words to say nothing at all

You claimed the science was still out and you’re wrong. Like every other transphobic concern troll, you have never once expressed concern for puberty blockers under any other context, when they are used far more often on cisgender kids.

If it hurts to be called a bigot, imagine how kids and their parents feel about online keyboard warriors saying they’re victims of a sinister ideology to make them question their identity when they’re just telling to be their authentic selves. Not that you care about them. You just dress up your uninformed opinions in fake concern for their wellbeing no one asked for.

*trying to be their authentic selves

We’reBackBaby @ 18: “Go back to your buddies at Raytheon and tell them, not only NO, but HELL NO.”

Raytheon, Mark Levin, Netanyahu, or AIPAC are not the final decision makers here. The President, and the President alone, will make the decision, and like he said, he decides what is “America First”. You (and all of us) will have to live with his decision.

@18: No book has been banned in my lifetime, just drop into Barnes and Noble and grab yourself (or your child) a copy of anything you like.

The fact that the word "banned" is used instead of "restricted" makes the steel plate in my head hurt. When I was young, the book "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret" was 'banned' or rather, 'restricted' at my school. All I had to do was talk to a classmate with the 'cool' parents about borrowing their copy.

"Banning" puts more attention on the book. I don't think it's a conservative thing, but rather, a Barnes and Noble thing. It's to sell more of the 'banned' book in question.

@37 Even weirder is her line about "Yes, tragically there are cases of kids exploring trans just to get away from an abuser. "...

like... what? She thinks kids are telling their parents and their doctors that they're transexual and want to have surgery performed and take puberty blockers to avoid being sexually abused by someone? That makes zero sense and isn't a thing.. much less a common thing. I don't know where she's done her two years of research but she should try the non fiction section instead.

@27, Thanks for that. My error.

@25, You ask, you demand, you try and persuade and all the talk, talk, talk, doesn't change what the other party chooses and does.

Your options at that point are only two:

Let them do it.
Use force to stop it.

We aren't talking about someone who doesn't want to go out with you any more, or be married to you any more, we are talking about situations where the consequence of letting them continue in the activity in question is serious injury, death, or subjugation.

If we are talking about not pursuing people who speed, run read lights, or engage in other dangerous driving behavior its a binary choice of:

Stopping the vehicle so the driver can be identified and cited (or other lawful consequence).
Allowing them to continue the behavior with impunity. You can't later arrest or cite someone if you don't know who they are. Who the registered owner of the vehicle is, doesn't prove who was driving it, and the registered owner is not obligated to answer any police questions about who was driving under the 5th Amendment.

Do police cease pursuits of speeders because the risks to the public are become too high and it no longer meets the civil definition of being "reasonable and prudent?" All the time. The State Patrol did in this case. Another agency decided to see if they would stop for a second attempt. But that's a far different matter than making it the law that police can't pursue, which was the case for years in Washington State.

Books are banned from libraries and schools all the time. I know it’s much easier to police language than to admit you’re afraid of the free expression of ideas but banned is the word we use to describe it when people fight to have books removed from circulation.

If you change it to restricted, in 10 years you’ll be saying “no one restricts books, we embargo them!” The negative connotations will always catch up with you because your behavior is the problem, not the commonly understood words people use to describe it.

@30, See @43.

Courts have ruled over and over again, that police may do whatever is reasonably necessary to enforce the law. In the case of traffic violations, that means stopping the vehicle in question so the driver can be identified. The courts have even upheld forced speech, which the 1st Amendment and 5th Amendment generally prohibit, to uphold the laws of all 50 states that require the driver provide identification, registration, and proof of insurance (in states that require insurance), because it is fundamental to being able to enforce traffic laws. Unless you are actually under arrest, you don't have to identify yourself (in most states).

@36 - you misunderstood my post. The "conservative icon" I was referring to was the ACLU attorney who was arguing IN FAVOR of gender affirming care for minors.

You were done in by your own side. Hoisted by your own petard, even.

@46: You're always complaining about big words so I'll try to make it simple. It's a lot more than just puberty blockers and you're not an endocrinologist. They have their benefits in other contexts, but any thoughtful study on the subject invariably has something along the lines of "depending on how long their used their impact on the body is a subject of ongoing research and debate."

@36 "We spent far too many years being nice to you people and ended up with a child molesting felon in the white house because of it. Time to start calling a spade a spade."
Or maybe someone like you would call them autistic.

@33, It would be minimal since the bunker buster bomb of the United States is a 30,000 pound conventional explosive device.

If a conventional explosive goes off in nuclear material such Uranium or Plutonium, it spreads that material only as far as the blast radius of the weapon, which is hundreds of meters. That assumes no wind. If there is wind, the material thrown up in the air a few hundred meters gets carried as far as the wind will take it. Maybe miles.

The material is now uncontained in the environment and will get carried on the wind in the future, like sand or dust normally would be, or washed downhill and downstream by rain. It gets more diluted as that happens, which makes it less and less hazardous to the point that there won't be enough exposure for ill health effects. That happens fairly rapidly. The bad news is the more disbursed the stuff gets, the harder it is to find and clean-up. Cleaning it up is easiest, with radiation suits, when the stuff is concentrated enough in one place to be lethal or cause ill health.

If the case of Fordo, we are talking less nuclear material release, by a factor of thousands, then happened at Chernobyl, which carried radio active material around the world because the subsequent meltdown created a huge fire that drove the smoke full of radio active material into the jet stream. There is no risk of that at Fordo.

The death toll from Chernobyl, the worst nuclear material release in history, was 30, with perhaps up to 4,000 others dying prematurely from cancer and other radiation illnesses over time. Fordo is at no risk of being in any way comparable to Chernobyl in scale.

The radiation release from a conventional bomb at Fordo will cause no human health problems unless soldiers or civilians decide to go to the site and roll around in, or eat the dirt that is contaminated during the conventional bomb blast. That also means the Iranians can't just send a bunch of miners and concrete guys back in there to just repair what wasn't totally obliterated, did a deeper bunker, and poor thicker and stronger concrete.

It's a reasonable question, but its not really an issue with a conventional explosive bomb.

On the hand if Iran gets a nuke, and used it, there will be radio active fallout around the world. Any nuclear detonation irradiates particles in and around the blast, and the resulting fireball and updraft carries those particle high into the atmosphere. Depending on how populated the area is near the detonation, and how populated it is in the fallout zone a hundred miles downwind, your talking thousands or tens of thousands of radiation deaths.

Choose your risk.

47, i’m a scientist and i have seen the research. These are drugs that have been in use since the 90s without controversy until a bunch of busybodies decided trans people are a social contagion that needs to be rooted out of society.

Beyond blockers, gender change in minors involves pronouns, name changes, and a new wardrobe. In extremely rare cases, kids who reach physical maturity at age 16-17 might get top surgery, another medical intervention performed on cis kids without eliciting a moral panic. Your concerns are at best based on ignorance and a stubborn refusal to do anything to change it, but I am pretty sure it’s much worse than that.

"Trump says he hasn't made final decision about US striking Iran."

TACO strikes again.

@50: You're full of caveats and talking points to make your case, I'll give you that. But the ethics to preserve an adult decision for an adult to make is hardly a "moral panic".

Name changes and new wardrobes are freedoms enjoyed by all Americans.

I don't like pronouns because they compel other people to participate in a lie. Or they bastardize the English language.

Removing the mammary glands is not performed on cisgendered children with healthy breast tissue. Breast reduction is not the same as breast removal.

Scientists should be more precise with their language or the public might accuse them of bias. Generally not a good reputation to have for folks who deal in objective reality for a living.

I’m full of knowledge about medical science, respect for bodily autonomy in people of all ages with the guidance of qualified health care providers and the consent of parents when needed, and an unapologetic hatred for bigots of all shapes and sizes

@41: Yes, the ways kids react to trauma doesn't make sense to adult minds. Here's one accounting of just how tough things are for kids in these and similar situations:

https://youtu.be/JYcONEXuZNg?t=111

@43 can you please explain how it makes any logical sense for police to speed to police speeders, and why legislators should not follow the recommendations of the subject matter experts who conducted the research barth and I both linked to?

@54: How can you say you're in full knowledge of medical science then cast people who interpret the science differently than you do as bigots? Not the scientific method I dare say.

Cisgender boys have breast tissue removed at far greater rates than trans boys as a form of gender affirming care but no one tells them their gender dysphoria can be cured by seeing a psychiatrist. Breast reduction in women also involves the removal of mammary tissue because that’s how breasts work.

Pronouns are just words. No one can force you to treat others with respect by honoring their identity.

57 because all the people who “interpret the science differently” aren’t scientists? Please be serious

@59: Good catch, should be "scientists who interpret the science differently ..."

@10, @11: Last year, the Stranger, and its supportive commenters, repeatedly told us we should not vote for Genocide Joe (and later, Killer Kamala) because the Democrats had not sufficiently restrained Israel in Gaza. Now Israel has gone to full-out war with Iran, whilst Gaza remains mired in misery. Although it was blindingly obvious Trump would be worse on all issues, Middle Eastern ones included, the Stranger and supporters here simply refused to listen.

Remind me again: Besides the rivers, plains, forests and mountains, mercifully nearly empty of people, what is there about America that's good?

@61 the Biden admin also fully supported Israel, including against Iran. There are a multitude of ways Trump is worse than Biden/Harris but Middle East fopo ain't one. And considering you also fully support everything Israel does I'm not sure what you're complaining about here.

@63: "the Biden admin also fully supported Israel, including against Iran."

Wrong. (As usual.)

"The Biden administration put constant pressure on Netanyahu to lessen the intensity of attacks that could hurt civilians, end the war in Gaza and de-escalate with Hezbollah in the north. When Iran and Israel got into their first ever direct exchanges of fire last year, the administration urged Israel not to strike Iran’s nuclear or energy sectors for fear of escalation. That pressure ultimately shaped Israel’s response."

(https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-races-to-reshape-the-middle-east-with-few-checks-7b0dbde4?mod=Searchresults_pos6&page=1)

Now, Trump eggs Netanyahu on, including offering to involve US military units in support of Israel's attacks on Iran. And still you're spouting contrafactual nonsense about Trump.

Not sure Joe had a big influence on the Israelis.
Did the Israelis kill less children/day or something?

@64. You've got it backwards; Netanyahu forced Trump's hand. There are consequences to selling out the government to those funded by multinational private prision corporations (ICE), power mad robber-barons, and AIPAC/CUFI whose ideologies are in conflict and whom Trump is mediating in 4D chess. He is a weak pawn. The strong do not need to use force to gain compliance.

@64 not wrong. Netanyahu didn't listen to Biden at all just like he doesn't listen to Trump at all, because he knows neither would impose any actual consequences.

https://jacobin.com/2024/05/rafah-invasion-biden-red-line-netanyahu

@65, @66, @67: From the same link I cited @64, the preceding paragraph in that WSJ article:

"By Sunday afternoon, Israel had hit more than 250 targets in 50 hours of nonstop attacks. So far, the Trump administration isn’t reining it in. That’s a significant shift from decades of U.S. foreign policy. As far back as the Suez Crisis in 1956, the U.S. has simultaneously supported Israel while hitting the brakes on its ambitions, hoping to keep conflicts from spiraling."

Trump has abandoned that long-standing policy, failing even to attempt restraining Netanyahu. Anyone who argued that Biden should have done more should now be furious with Trump for doing nothing. (Anyone who had any intellectual or moral honesty, that is.)

@67: I'll cite the WSJ; you can have Jacobin. I've quoted at length from my source. (See what one can do, simply by picking a source actually worth quoting?)

@68 that quote is an opinion statement. Reports are Trump stopped Israel from assassinating Khomeini. In any event, yes, I am angry at Trump for allowing Israel to do essentially whatever they want * just like * I was angry at Biden and Harris for the same. You on the other hand seem only to be angry at Trump, because for you Red vs Blue is more important than any coherent principle.

@68: "...that quote is an opinion statement."

Yeah, just like a NATO Centre of Excellence is "...a PR firm."

Just for fun, I went to that page at Jacobin. Ctrl+F showed "Hamas" not found, but "genocide" was. While it's a FACT Israel was fighting Hamas, it's an OPINION that Israel has committed genocide whilst fighting Hamas. So, neither you nor your (unquoted) source is doing so well on the whole fact v. opinion thing yourselves.

"Reports are Trump stopped Israel from assassinating Khomeini."

HA, HA, HA! Got a source for those "Reports"? Didn't think so.

(BTW, it's "Khamenei." The Iranian leader named "Khomeini" died a long time ago.)

@70 "HA, HA, HA! Got a source for those "Reports"?"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2025/06/15/trump-shot-down-israeli-plan-to-kill-supreme-leader-of-iran/

Try to keep up

@71: Let’s follow the first link at that Forbes article:

“…according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.”

So, that’s one anonymous source. Let’s look at the other link:

“…two U.S. officials told Reuters on Sunday.”

So, that’s either three or two anonymous sources, supposedly within the Trump Administration — which, as you well know, would never, ever lie or spread false information. (Especially not when such false information would make Trump look more powerful than he really is.)

Get back to us when you have an Israeli source. On the record.

Here, let me show you how that’s done. From one of the linked articles at Forbes:

‘When asked about Reuters report, Netanyahu, in an interview on Sunday with Fox News Channel's "Special Report With Bret Baier," said: "There's so many false reports of conversations that never happened, and I'm not going to get into that."’

You’re welcome!

@63 -- "There are a multitude of ways Trump is worse than Biden/Harris but Middle East fopo ain't one."

Trump just announced that he bombed Iran. Leftists like you who thought Trump was better than Harris/Biden on Middle East policy are either the most gullible or the stupidest people on the planet.

@73 I didn't think Trump was better I just didn't think he was worse. See:

"Speaking with “60 Minutes” correspondent Bill Whitaker, Harris was asked which nation she considers “to be our greatest adversary.”

“I think there’s an obvious one in mind, which is Iran,” Harris replied. “Iran has American blood on their hands. This attack on Israel, 200 ballistic missiles.”

“What we need to do to ensure that Iran never achieves the ability to be a nuclear power, that is one of my highest priorities,” she added.

Whitaker followed up, asking, “If Iran is building a nuclear weapon, would you take military action?”

“I’m not going to talk about hypotheticals at this moment,” said the vice president."

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/08/harris-iran-greatest-adversary-trump-election.html

The real gullible and/or stupid people are the ones who believe the modern Democratic Party is not also virulently imperialist. Like you.

@73: “Leftists like you who thought Trump was better than Harris/Biden on Middle East policy are either the most gullible or the stupidest people on the planet.”

Must we choose?

@74: “I didn't think Trump was better.”

@69: “Reports are Trump stopped Israel from assassinating Khomeini [sic].”

You two can just go fight that out amongst yourselves.

@73 & 75

https://theintercept.com/2025/06/19/democratic-iran-war-trump-schumer-jeffries-meeks/

And more generally:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/jan/09/democrats-war-foreign-policy

@76, 77 -- yes, we know, "leftist" horseshoe theory Trump supporters like you are going to be constantly critical of Democrats while supporting Trump.

@78 my criticism is they didn't try to do anything to actually stop Trump. That both parties are imperialist and warmongering. I'm not giving either a pass for having immoral foreign policy, why are you?

thirteen12: Democrats are worse than Trump. Here is a very specific assertion of how Trump is better.

Trump: immediately does something totally contrary to and invalidating thirteen12's specific assertion of how he is better than Democrats

thirteen12: it's the Democrats' fault that Trump did the bad thing he did that I asserted he wouldn't do

EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

@80 like I wrote at 69: "In any event, yes, I am angry at Trump for allowing Israel to do essentially whatever they want * just like * I was angry at Biden and Harris for the same. You on the other hand seem only to be angry at Trump, because for you Red vs Blue is more important than any coherent principle."

You and tensorna are loudly insisting Coke is better than Pepsi, meanwhile I'm focused on how both will rot your teeth and give you diabetes.

@81: Again with the "both parties are exactly the same" lie. Presidents G.W. Bush and D.J. Trump thank you for your support. Had the Democrats won instead, American women might still have the right to control their own bodies, the second Gulf War might not have happened, and the Taliban might remain out of power in Afghanistan.

Also, we might not have bombed Iran. You've claimed that Trump is not worse than the Democrats because neither restrained Israel (ignoring copious evidence the Democrats actually tried). Now Trump actively aids Israel in attacking Iran, and you're STILL saying there's no difference between Trump and the Democrats. As I pointed out @75, you're such an avid Trump supporter, you're not even agreeing with yourself anymore.

@81 -- thirteen12: Pepsi and Coke are both bad for you!

Democrats: OK, here's a healthy meal but you can still drink Coke or Pepsi if you want. You probably shouldn't, though, because it's not great to drink soda constantly.

Republicans: here's Coke and Pepsi that we're forcing everyone to consume becauee we're taking away all the healthy food so all you get is sugar soda and nothing else. And the Coke and Pepsi that we're making you drink is laced with a combination of meth and fentanyl.

Thirteen12: both parties are the same and it's in fact better to vote against the Democrats so you can only drink meth soda than have the ability to eat a healthy meal.

@83 https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

@84: Not-Garb’, no one’s going to watch your videos when you post them with no context. As we’ve seen, right here in this very thread, your cited “evidence” completely disintegrates upon the first touch of skepticism, and you continue pounding your opinion anyway. Why should anyone care about your random videos?

@85 you're so mad I can only assume you did in fact see what the video was

@86: No, I actually mean what I say, and no, I don't expect you to comprehend that concept in the slightest. (And if you read @85 as my being "mad," then your perception works even less well than you've previously demonstrated.)

Also, good work on trying to move the goalposts from, "There are a multitude of ways Trump is worse than Biden/Harris but Middle East fopo ain't one," to, "... both parties are imperialist and warmongering." Even better, you got there by comparing Harris' words to Trump's actions, equating what someone said sometime to an actual attack with missiles and heavy bombers. All of the many human beings who've ever been blown to bits by mere words would agree with your implicit equation, no doubt.

@87 oh nevermind you're not mad you just keep replying because... ?

@88: "oh nevermind you're not mad you just keep replying because... ?"

Because you keep making errors. Duh.

Right here in this thread, I've already completely debunked one of your claims. No need to go through that again, enjoyable though it was. It's well past time for you to be just as wrong in other threads.