Innocent until proven guilty

But you have to pay a fine.



Following through the links, we find:

"The city’s [San Francisco] new criminal activity rate, which measures the rate at which people commit new crimes while awaiting trial, is 10%." (

Assuming SF is the city in the US most like Seattle, would everyone be alright with this increase in crime?

Do we intend to make exceptions for persons charged with domestic violence, or have personal histories of it, or histories of other violent crimes? Because a "blanket" removal of the policy suggests not.


@2 the report doesn't document that 10% recidivism rate in SF as an increase, it's just the rate of recidivism after pretrial reforms. If the rate didn't change, but more people are on the street (because jail pop reduced), that would be the amount of of extra crime. But maybe that's a small price to pay to keep the jail pop down (keeping in mind that all of those people are still presumed innocent) during the lengthy wait for a trial.


I mean what could possibly go wrong?

I think the key line in the whole piece is this "prosecutors ask the court to set bail at a price meant to reflect an assessment of the accused person's risk of flight and the likelihood that they’ll commit violence if released."

Does anyone have a problem with bail if the defendant is considered a high risk to not show up and/or will continue to commit crimes if they are released? If you ask the public I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Stop framing this as some poor people in jail bullshit. Cash bail exists to protect the public from assholes. Judges have discretion to do what they think is right and if we don't trust them to make that decision or they continue to make poor ones there are elections. Instituting a carte blanche policy that limits judicial discretion is bad (see 3 strikes laws).


@1 You get the money back if you show up for court and after your case is decided.
If you're innocent the bail kept you out of jail while your case proceeded. If you're guilty you should have saved us all the trouble by pleading guilty to begin with, or better yet, not committing the crime!


Don't ever forget that the most powerful and prominent Progressive Prosecutor in the country, Alvin Bragg of Manhattan, is so Progressive that he refused to prosecute the most Powerful and Prominent MAGA of them all, Donald J. Trump.

At least Bragg is consistent but damn Progressive Prosecutors are fucking worthless.


@9: "But maybe that's a small price to pay to keep the jail pop down..."

Ask the victims of the crimes committed because the suspects were not in custody.


Stranger, NO! Leesa Manion, unlike her conservative white male opponent at least understands that (a) the legal system is shot-through top to bottom with institutionalized racism and (b) incarceration destroys lives and shouldn't be the default option in every case. That's not nearly enough, I get that. It won't lead to the deep structural reform we need. It may not even inform much of what she does in office, as she admittedly has a lot of establishment baggage pulling on her. But it's almost certainly the best we can do in the current awful political climate where even Seattle elected a Trump-adjacent prosecutor -- King County is far more conservative as a whole. I beg the Stranger not to destroy Manion's candidacy by recruiting and endorsing a progressive firebrand who fights the good fight and might well displace her in the primary with this paper's help but would not stand a snowball's chance in Hell in the general. It's dismaying, I know, but 2022 just isn't the time for that. Sorry.


@10: You have obviously learned nothing from how the Stranger approaches politics. As they put it, "...the Stranger Election Control Board picked the candidates who proposed the correct answers to the problems the city faces..." In their world, there are easily-discernible "correct answers" to every one of "the problems the city faces," and thus, everyone who disagrees is not merely wrong, but contemptibly so. Sure, we're talking about the method used to endorse candidates who suffered bone-crushing defeats in massive citywide landslides, but via the potent combination of chronic unearned privilege and DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL, the Stranger's writers can simply ignore those inconvenient election results. Thus armored against pesky reality, they can continue to repeat their mistakes, such as, "if backing Nikkita Oliver was a dumb move, then we'll probably make that dumb move again, and again, and again until they win..."

Here's another example of repeating an obvious mistake:

"...the current awful political climate where even Seattle elected a Trump-adjacent prosecutor..."

In case you somehow missed it, the Stranger incessantly hectored Seattle's voters, informing them that they could not, not ever, no way, never, not under any circumstances, vote for a Republican. Fingers wagged for weeks, until voters simply ignored the Stranger.

In future, please avoid making the same mistake as did the Stranger, and also please learn what the political term "RINO" means. (Hint: not the same thing as "Trump-adjacent.")


@11 Trump and his minions have rendered the term "RINO" utterly meaningless. Ann Davison (regardless of her actual party affiliation, which I won't speculate on because it's irrelevant) is a hard-right, cryptic white supremacist (a la Tucker Carlson) who has learned from experience how to modulate her rhetorical tone and public posturing for the Seattle upper-middle-class electorate's particular sensibilities in order to gain and keep political office. Hope that's a more detailed and satisfying description than the one I previously offered.


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